China's going nuts

[igorsMistress]

You're just making an assumption. China's healthcare system is dysfunctional and corrupt. Violence against doctors is normal; one doctor got stabbed because he gave a bad diagnosis. No one wants to go to primary care physicians because they are stigmatized, and everyone wants to see specialists at the hospitals for even coughs and sniffles. Sick people start lining up outside in cold weather at 4 AM for the chance to see a specialist, and most are turned away. So hospitals are overwhelmed even in normal times. Their system is broken. IMO the perception that this is an apocalyptic disease is due to the dysfunctional society in which it's occurring. I seriously doubt this will be repeated anywhere else .

I think that's an assumption. What makes them any more corrupt than the US? Nothing. They're doing ecactly what the US would do. As for fear, it is contagious but denying the risk won't make it less so. Perhaps we should all move to Cambodia to help thise unfortunate souls who are sick.

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

I think that's an assumption. What makes them any more corrupt than the US? Nothing. They're doing ecactly what the US would do. As for fear, it is contagious but denying the risk won't make it less so. Perhaps we should all move to Cambodia to help thise unfortunate souls who are sick.

For one thing doctor's in China take bribes from pharmaceutical companies, and it's not illegal. Doctor's in the US doing the same thing would go to prison.

Why don't you move to China and help the sick? Then you can report back how great it is.

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/30/business/china-health-care-doctors.html

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/22/chinas-public-health-challenges/

 

[igorsMistress]

For one thing doctor's in China take bribes from pharmaceutical companies, and it's not illegal. Doctor's in the US doing the same thing would go to prison.

Why don't you move to China and help the sick? Then you can report back how great it is.

I don't recall saying China is great so please, point that out to me will you? You keep saying how horrible it is, but fail to counter my claims that the CDC would do exactly the same thing here in the US. For the record, I don't think China is all that great but they are doing the right thing. I also agree with their population control. Some things are good, some are bad. Nowhere is perfect, including the US. I wouldn't go there to help them, I don't want to get sick. I don't want their sickness coming here either and it's already in my state.

 

[getaclue]

I prefer to err on the side of caution. There seem to be a lot of things, that don't seem to be taken into consideration. When this virus first broke out, no one had seen it before. The process to identify it, is quite involved.

Because it's uncertain how infectious the virus is, only certain labs worldwide, are able to handle the sample(s) containing the virus. Please note too, that viruses are way too small to be seen under a regular microscope. They require special microscopes, meaning there will be fewer of them available. First they compare it to all known viruses. When it's new, there is no response to it being a know virus. The next step involves genetic sequencing. Sequencing is done, which can produce results in as little as 48 hours, or take much longer. When it's finally identified, the information is uploaded into various databases. Next, testing begins to see if any known antibiotics (antibiotics rarely work on viruses), or antivirals make an impact on it, and learning all the ways it's transmitted. This can take from several weeks, to significantly longer. Too, there is the possibility that no known medications, are effective against it.

There is still no rapid test to identify this virus. Labs qualified to make a diagnosis, get overwhelmed, and only so many can be done, working around the clock, 24/7. Results are not instant.

Suddenly, every person in the country with a cough, sniffles, or whatever, is rushing to the hospital. There were approximately 9 million people, in Wuhan province alone. Not only are the doctors, and hospitals overwhelmed, but in the beginning, there was no way to accurately know which of them were actually infected with the new virus. Testing positive for another type virus, does not eliminate them from having both viruses. Of course the hospitals were overwhelmed.

In addition to all this, there are protocols in place, on how to deal with a suspected major outbreak, of a new contagion. Yes, in the event it ever happens here, we too, will follow these protocols.

Before you are too quick to judge their handling of the situation, please remember there is NO known medication that will help prevent, or work against this virus, once a person has it. There is nothing to do, at this point, but let it run it's course. The multiple videos of people complaining they are not getting any medicine to help, are pointless. There is no known medicine that will help. Quarantine is one of the protocols, and is effective enough that it's worth doing. In the majority of instances, family members can help care for those that are sick in their family, while the virus runs it's course.

You think nothing like that could happen here?

1. How long do you have to sit in the waiting room before seeing your doctor?
2. Does your doctor take blood samples, or send you to a lab for bloodwork?

For the most part, it's fairly risky, and pointless to go to your doctor in THIS particular situation. Like in China, even if you finally do get diagnosed, there is no treatment yet available, so there is nothing your doctor can do for you.

1. How many hospitals are in your immediate area?
2. When you went in with a problem, after being checked in, what was the wait time, before they began assessing you?
3. After being assessed, how long until you were put in an ER unit?
4. Did you ever see any patients on gurneys in the hall, waiting for an ER unit, or for treatment, or a hospital bed?
5. Once diagnosed, if you required a hospital stay, how long did you wait to be put in a room?
6. How many patients, do you think they could accommodate, pushing beyond maximum capacity?

Do you think this would be sufficient, if an extra 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 people suddenly began showing up over the course of 14 days?

Even in our country, under the same, or very similar conditions, our hospitals could quickly become overwhelmed, and would probably begin turning people away eventually, except for those that were treat, and release, those scheduled for surgery, and those that had secondary reasons for being there.

IF, they had to initiate a major quarantine here in the US, do you think it wouldn't be similar to what they're doing there?

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

I don't recall saying China is great so please, point that out to me will you? You keep saying how horrible it is, but fail to counter my claims that the CDC would do exactly the same thing here in the US. For the record, I don't think China is all that great but they are doing the right thing. I also agree with their population control. Some things are good, some are bad. Nowhere is perfect, including the US. I wouldn't go there to help them, I don't want to get sick. I don't want their sickness coming here either and it's already in my state.

No, the CDC would not board up people in their houses or beat people up in the streets for not wearing masks. It would be in big trouble if it tried that. Frankly, it doesn't have the authority to do anything like that. It is a non-profit organization, not a government agency. They can quarantine people coming into the country, but as far as I know that's it.

But [the CDC's] power to act is extremely restricted. The agency traditionally acts in an advisory role and can only take control from local authorities under two circumstances: if local authorities invite them to do so or under the authority outlined in the Insurrection Act in the event of a total breakdown of law and order.

https://time.com/3516827/cdc-constitution-quarantine/

 

[getaclue]

As to doctors taking bribes over there, they do here too, they just don't call it that. Our doctors get kick-backs from the pharmaceutical companies, big time. I think they call them "incentives".

 

[getaclue]

Yes, the US has the authority to quarantine, just like they did in China.

Federal isolation and quarantine are authorized for these communicable diseases

• Cholera
• Diphtheria
• Infectious tuberculosis
• Plague
• Smallpox
• Yellow fever
• Viral hemorrhagic fevers
• Severe acute respiratory syndromes
• Flu that can cause a pandemic

Federal isolation and quarantine are authorized by Executive Order of the President. The President can revise this list by Executive Order.

In addition:
The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.


Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

In addition, states, and tribes have the ability too:
States have police power functions to protect the health, safety, and welfare of persons within their borders. To control the spread of disease within their borders, states have laws to enforce the use of isolation and quarantine.

These laws can vary from state to state and can be specific or broad. In some states, local health authorities implement state law. In most states, breaking a quarantine order is a criminal misdemeanor.

Tribes also have police power authority to take actions that promote the health, safety, and welfare of their own tribal members. Tribal health authorities may enforce their own isolation and quarantine laws within tribal lands, if such laws exist.

 

[HenOnAJuneBug]

As to doctors taking bribes over there, they do here too, they just don't call it that. Our doctors get kick-backs from the pharmaceutical companies, big time. I think they call them "incentives".

You won't hear me say the US medical system isn't corrupt.