Chocolate projects?

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interesting thread! I've got a question for the group. I've heard that some are trying to create a chocolate laced orpington, basically from scratch. Well, I have a trio of gold laced orpingtons that have what looks to me like a chocolate base. Definitely not black. I was told to take my cock over a chocolate hen and that if the chicks came out chocolate, they were chocolate based birds. I've been told by someone familiar with the gold laced birds that the chocolate is actually blue or dunn coloration. My chicks from this crossing are definitely chocolate. What is the difference between dunn and chocolate? I've been told that both are diluted black, but how can I tell whether I have a chocolate base on these birds? There are NO black feathers on my roo or the hens. Chicks hatched from them either come out copper colored, chocolate colored (about 50%), or a cinnamon color. The copper colored birds hatch with a chocolate collar on the back of their necks and within a few days darken to almost solid chocolate while the cinnamon colored ones stay that way, so far anyhow. The oldest chicks I've got are 6 weeks.
 
Gary H said:
interesting thread! I've got a question for the group. I've heard that some are trying to create a chocolate laced orpington, basically from scratch. Well, I have a trio of gold laced orpingtons that have what looks to me like a chocolate base. Definitely not black. I was told to take my cock over a chocolate hen and that if the chicks came out chocolate, they were chocolate based birds. I've been told by someone familiar with the gold laced birds that the chocolate is actually blue or dunn coloration. My chicks from this crossing are definitely chocolate. What is the difference between dunn and chocolate? I've been told that both are diluted black, but how can I tell whether I have a chocolate base on these birds? There are NO black feathers on my roo or the hens. Chicks hatched from them either come out copper colored, chocolate colored (about 50%), or a cinnamon color. The copper colored birds hatch with a chocolate collar on the back of their necks and within a few days darken to almost solid chocolate while the cinnamon colored ones stay that way, so far anyhow. The oldest chicks I've got are 6 weeks.
Click to expand...
You need to post good photo's, taken in natural lighting. What you call cinnamon, and copper and chocolate may not look those colors to others.
Post parent photo's. There are already chocolate Orps in the US and you cannot make chocolate from "scratch".
 
Gary H said:
Hmmm, I beg to differ. I've seen them.

My camera doesn't show the color brown or the shades worth a crap. I've tried so many times in different lights to no avail.I've even tried light boxes for the chicks. Maybe when I can get a high end camera.
Click to expand...
What I mean is....you cannot "make" chocolate. Chocolate is produced by one of two genes, the dun gene (must be heterozygous) and recessive/sex linked chocolate. It's evidently easy to produce colors that appear chocolatey but they are not "chocolate" and do not breed as chocolate would. There are loads of Serama's that the colors mimic chocolate but that does not make them chocolate.
 
the breeders that are attempting this are far above my knowledge level. Thats why I asked for verification. Is there a way that I can breed this bird to test if it truly a chocolate based. I was told by a couple different people that If I bred my male to a chocolate hen and got chocolate chicks, I had a chocolate based bird. This has happened multiple times at this point. I also bred the chocolates hatch mate to a jubilee to see what I got, and those chicks are definitely black. I understand the genes have to be there for this to be the case. Is the test I did enough or is there something else I can do?
 
Gary H said:
the breeders that are attempting this are far above my knowledge level. Thats why I asked for verification. Is there a way that I can breed this bird to test if it truly a chocolate based. I was told by a couple different people that If I bred my male to a chocolate hen and got chocolate chicks, I had a chocolate based bird. This has happened multiple times at this point. I also bred the chocolates hatch mate to a jubilee to see what I got, and those chicks are definitely black. I understand the genes have to be there for this to be the case. Is the test I did enough or is there something else I can do?
Click to expand...
Gary,
There are 2 different genes that make a chocolate phenotype (visually chocolate). If yours is recessive/sex linked chocolate, breeding a chocolate to another chocolate can only produce chocolates, 100% chocolates and not a single "other color" or it's not chocolate.
Here is how recessive chocolate works.....and yes, you can only verify a chocolate by breeding if there is any question.


Chocolate cockerel + Chocolate hen = 100% Chocolate

Chocolate cockerel + non chocolate hen = all Chocolate pullets & all Chocolate Split cockerels (non chocolate but carry the Chocolate gene)

Non Chocolate cockerel + Chocolate hen = all Chocolate Split males & all Non Chocolate pullets

Chocolate Split Cockerel + Chocolate hen = 25% Chocolate hens, 25% Non Chocolate pullets, 25% Chocolate cockerels & 25% Chocolate split cockerels

Chocolate Split Cockerel + Non Chocolate hen = 25% Chocolate pullets, 25% Non Chocolate pullets, 25% Non Chocolate cockerels & 25% Chocolate split cockerels

*****Chocolate Split which only appears in the Cockerels, they can have a non chocolate gene and a chocolate gene. BUT hens are either chocolate or they are not, if not, they do not have the gene.
 
so, if I hatch out 9 chicks in 2 weeks from a mating of the GL cock and the chocolate hen and all 9 come out chocolate, chances are pretty doggone good I have a chocolate base in the
GL. Correct? I stopped the mating after 2 weeks because I didn't want an excessive amount of mutts around here.
Took some more pictures of the birds.. still aren't true colors being portrayed but their close.
here's the rooster's under fluff
DSCN2539_zps2c935eca.jpg

Hens under fluff
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/garyhern/chickens/DSCN2543_zps89b0e626.jpg[/IMG]
Oldest pullet, very dark chocolate in feathering
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/garyhern/chickens/DSCN2857_zps5b0796f5.jpg[/IMG]
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/garyhern/chickens/DSCN2857_zps5b0796f5.jpg[/IMG]
this is the cockerel chick
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/garyhern/chickens/DSCN2858_zps51bde414.jpg[/IMG]

Cant get them to show here
 
Last edited:
Gary H said:
so, if I hatch out 9 chicks in 2 weeks from a mating of the GL cock and the chocolate hen and all 9 come out chocolate, chances are pretty doggone good I have a chocolate base in the
GL. Correct? I stopped the mating after 2 weeks because I didn't want an excessive amount of mutts around here.
Took some more pictures of the birds.. still aren't true colors being portrayed but their close.
here's the rooster's under fluff

Hens under fluff

Oldest pullet, very dark chocolate in feathering


this is the cockerel chick
Click to expand...
No photo's, just error messages but yes, a pretty good chance he's chocolate. What is a GL?
Technically, it would mean you had to hatch 100 chicks for the percentage stats to work but 20 or so is usually sufficient. If there is ever even a single chick that is not chocolate, that changes everything.
 

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