Coccidios Not Responding to Corid or Sulmet

[Haunted55]

Corrid or amprolium I read can cause Vit B difficiency isn't it a thiamine blocker? I was wondering if multiple treatments could be causing vit def paralysis?

Nnot if you give vitamins and probiotics for a week between dosing. If that were the case the birds would have shown improvement after the vitamins were given, didn't happen for me.

 

[Haunted55]

I have an experiment going on right now. I just had a hatch of 3 eggs. 1 silkie, hatched 10/1, 1 showgirl and 1 layer, hatched 10/2. The silkie has since died. I chose not to give the Marek's vaccine to these bird because there were problems with the silkie and the incubator had to be opened before the other 2 had finished hatching out. Also, the people I get my vaccine from are out until Dec.. I have another 15 chicken eggs in the incubator right now and they will be moved to the hatcher on the 10th. They will get the vaccination for Marek's. Right now the first hatch is in my house and will stay here until they are 2 months at least, as will the ones soon to hatch.

I am having a hard time getting these birds to eat and drink. I have dipped their beaks repeatedly to show them the water and also the food. It may be that they just aren't hungry yet as it has only been 2 days. They have vitamin and electolytes in their water and have medicated food available. These chicks do not seem as lively as ones I have hatched in the past. The ducks I hatched at the same time and they are doing fantastic. Time will tell.

 

[soler]

Corrid or amprolium I read can cause Vit B difficiency isn't it a thiamine blocker? I was wondering if multiple treatments could be causing vit def paralysis?

it is, but i am not sure it would be enough to cause a deficiency unless they were on it all the time. I usually boost their water with vitamins after treatment.

 

[soler]

Actually, the report did not rule out Marek's. I've spoken with 3 Vets since getting the report and they have found some problems with the findings and the end diagnosis. So I really think all that I got from this were muddier waters.

I tried the vitamins as well for weeks. The paralysis didn't go away and in fact progressed. The meds weren't given in anyway to suggest overdose. This reply from a Vet at the company that sells the Corid. I never guessed at the amount going into the water and the 9.6% dosing is about the same as medicated feed would be.

then i am stomped. Maybe send in another body for a necropsy?

 

[Haunted55]

then i am stomped. Maybe send in another body for a necropsy?

I hope not, but I am keeping the extra roos that are still a bit pale just in case. No more deaths but there is still anemia that is just not responding to any amount of vitamins. I have changed the feed and will see what happens with that. You know I wonder, does anyone know if chickens can have liver, cooked? I have read you are not supposed to give chickens vitamins with iron but what if they'd eat it in a natural form?

 

[soler]

sounds like it's ok:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/528894/ok-to-feed-beef-liver

and it's ok raw too

 

[Haunted55]

sounds like it's ok:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/528894/ok-to-feed-beef-liver

and it's ok raw too

Thank-you!!!!! I'll give them some tonight and see how it goes. At least it'll give them some added iron and help build their blood.

Here's something else I have found in my travels.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/jul01/marek0701.htm?pf=1

It's kind of interesting and I think it may be saying that there is a 5th strain of Marek's? I know that the regular Vet at the state diagnostic lab here [who did not do the necropsy] said that all along the East coast there are mutated forms of marek's popping up all over. They don't seem to follow the regular presentation of the disease but do show a lot of the internal signs. Not all but some. It's just plain weird. All I can do now is try to breed for resistance.

 

[Haunted55]

You know, here's another thing that may be playing in with my problems and everyone elses as well. The GMO corn and soybeans that are used in our animals' feeds. I recently heard that rats/mice who were given the corn to eat all got cancer. All of them. Maybe the feed is an issue. Maybe it is lowering resistance of the animals in general so if they are exposed to something it will come with a bang. Wow, now that's a pleasant thought.

 

[leadwolf1]

I don't read it as saying there is a 5th strain of Marek's. It is merely a name. It doesn't tell us how they name these things. However, it is saying that Marek's is mutating. I could have already told them that

I still think that I would have tissue samples taken and cultured. Culture blood, saliva and organ tissue. Found out what grows out of these cultures. I think this is key to beginning to understand what is causing the rapid and multiple deaths. With cultures not only can they determine what agent is involved but, the best medication to us to combat it if there is one available. Coccidia, in my opinion, is a symptom...what is the underlying cause? More research and necropsies are going to need to be done in order to find out this information. Other vets can guess and give their opinions as to what went wrong with the first necropsy but, without having examined the bird first hand, what they are giving is only their opinion, not fact.

 

[centrarchid]

I don't read it as saying there is a 5th strain of Marek's. It is merely a name. It doesn't tell us how they name these things. However, it is saying that Marek's is mutating. I could have already told them that

I still think that I would have tissue samples taken and cultured. Culture blood, saliva and organ tissue. Found out what grows out of these cultures. I think this is key to beginning to understand what is causing the rapid and multiple deaths. With cultures not only can they determine what agent is involved but, the best medication to us to combat it if there is one available. Coccidia, in my opinion, is a symptom...what is the underlying cause? More research and necropsies are going to need to be done in order to find out this information. Other vets can guess and give their opinions as to what went wrong with the first necropsy but, without having examined the bird first hand, what they are giving is only their opinion, not fact.

In past Marek's disease could wipe the majority of a production flock so lethal strains not new. Production flock had more birds come in into more frequent contact with each other and were otherwise stressed as one would expect under intensive conditions. This set stage where more virulent forms of virus would be at advantage. The vaccines developed helped with Marek' virus challenges since and Marek's has been evolving continously during that time frame.

I would not be so certain the virus is evolving to response to vaccine use. If a modern flock is vaccinated yet decimated, it is my understanding the entire flock is destroyed effectively ending that line of Mareks virus. Such a system would actually select for less virulent forms as they would be less likely to catch eye of party monitoring flock health and also be less likely to kill host. Virus does not neccessarily benefit form killing host.

Rather, the Marek's virus spends most of its time contending with challenges of living in some sort of non-chicken reservoir. Wild birds would be my guess. Not all those strains are same with respect to impacts on chickens. Sometimes we get unlikely and a given flock gets hit by a strain that hammers chickens, other times we get what I get into where only a few birds are infected to point where I can detect it based on outward signs. In my setting I bet all my birds are exposed and those not become symptomatic are effectively immune despite being carriers. Some, even though exposed may have such strong immunity they are not carriers either.