Cochin color question-

[lilwanderer]

Is there a way to make a paint or splash cochin using white and blue?
I just got a white cochin rooster and was thinking of putting him with my blu cochin hen.
The rooster is a bantam and the hen is standard but I'm not worried about that.
Only reason I want to do that is to get splash or paint, is that possible or would I need a blue rooster or a paint/splash rooster?
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Also forgot to mention, the roo just had a bath as he was fighting with my other cochin rooster (The white one is new) the white one had, not his blood but the other ones all over him. .
Also why he is currently in my biggest dog kennel temporarily.
But that's not my point, while bathing him and drying him I found a couple spots of black.
Would that help with creating a paint?
He's with my white hens at the moment.

Here's the blue hen case she can help with anything.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Dominant White X Blue should make paints, since blue is diluted black. But may also make blue paints. Paints with blue splotches rather than black.

I don't think Splash would show up very great on white. But myself haven't done this form of breeding.

 

[The Moonshiner]

It's very likely your BC rooster has recessive white not dominant white and if so you won't get any splash or paints from that pairing.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

White Cochins are recessive white, which is not the correct white gene to make the paint pattern. You need dominant white for that, for which you'd have to out-cross to a different breed that has that gene in order to introduce it into your Cochins.

It's possible, if he just happens to carry blue, that you could get Splashes out of that cross, but definitely not a guarantee and I would not rely on that as a possibility. Personally, I would expect White x Blue in Cochins to produce leaky Blues and Blacks, maybe some Whites as well if the hen carries the gene.

 

[lilwanderer]

White Cochins are recessive white, which is not the correct white gene to make the paint pattern. You need dominant white for that, for which you'd have to out-cross to a different breed that has that gene in order to introduce it into your Cochins.

It's possible, if he just happens to carry blue, that you could get Splashes out of that cross, but definitely not a guarantee and I would not rely on that as a possibility. Personally, I would expect White x Blue in Cochins to produce leaky Blues and Blacks, maybe some Whites as well if the hen carries the gene.

What if I put the blue girl with my calico?
I know he's darker but I came across these blue calico cochins and was wondering how that happened.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Calico x Blue would result in leaky Blues and Blacks as well. Blue is the result of a gene called extended black (E) or sometimes birchen (E^R) with extra melanizers, in either case with a dilution gene that turns black plumage to blue. Extended black is dominant over patterns and birchen is dominant over everything except extended black, so either way it hides other colorations in the first generation of such a cross like with Calico, generally letting just a little bit of color leak through in the neck, saddle, or breast. However, all of the resulting chicks would carry genes from their father for the Calico pattern. That means that if you take those leaky Blues from that cross and cross them back to Calico, you should get a small portion of Blue Calico / Blue Mille Fleur from that.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Since Calico carries mottling, would it be better to take a mottled bird from the second generation and cross them to a calico instead of sibling to sibling?

The mottleds from the second generation crossed back to Calico would make roughly equal numbers of mottled and calico offspring, but that would not help at all in improving the amount of color leakage in the mottleds.

It probably would be simplest to wait until you get a Mottled from a different line and cross to it instead. Or, unless you're wanting to make Blue Mottleds from all of this, you could just get a foundation group of Mottleds instead and work from them. Then you wouldn't be fighting against color leakage in your birds from the Calico in the background of some of them.

 

[lilwanderer]

Calico x Blue would result in leaky Blues and Blacks as well. Blue is the result of a gene called extended black (E) or sometimes birchen (E^R) with extra melanizers, in either case with a dilution gene that turns black plumage to blue. Extended black is dominant over patterns and birchen is dominant over everything except extended black, so either way it hides other colorations in the first generation of such a cross like with Calico, generally letting just a little bit of color leak through in the neck, saddle, or breast. However, all of the resulting chicks would carry genes from their father for the Calico pattern. That means that if you take those leaky Blues from that cross and cross them back to Calico, you should get a small portion of Blue Calico / Blue Mille Fleur from that.

what about the ones in the last part you mentioned that dont end up being blue calico or blue mille fleur- what if they were crossed back to calico- would i get a bigger portion of blue calicos or would it be relatively the same?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

So, to reiterate for clarity, first generation cross of Calico x Blue, you'll get leaky Blues and leaky Blacks.

Crossing those leaky Blues from the first generation back to Calico will get you a small portion of Blue Calico / Blue Mille Fleur in the second generation. The rest of the second generation chicks should be a variety of colors; leaky blue or black, leaky blue or black mottled, blue or black columbian, black calico/mille fleur, some birds that resemble columbian or mille fleur but perhaps have more or less black or blue on them than they should, etc.

If you cross the leaky blues from the second generation back to Calico, you'd expect much the same as before; a small portion of blue calico/mille fleur and a variety of other patterns. Crossing the leaky blue mottled or the blue columbian back to Calico should make more blue calico/mille fleurs than with the leaky blues, about one quarter of their offspring instead of about 10 percent as with the leaky blues without visible mottling. You will not get any Blue Calico/Mille Fleur by crossing any of the black patterned birds back to Calico, however, because the blue dilution gene is a partial dominant gene, meaning if they do not have blue parts on their feathers then they do not have the gene to dilute blue to black and thus cannot pass it on to their offspring.

 

[lilwanderer]

So, to reiterate for clarity, first generation cross of Calico x Blue, you'll get leaky Blues and leaky Blacks.

Crossing those leaky Blues from the first generation back to Calico will get you a small portion of Blue Calico / Blue Mille Fleur in the second generation. The rest of the second generation chicks should be a variety of colors; leaky blue or black, leaky blue or black mottled, blue or black columbian, black calico/mille fleur, some birds that resemble columbian or mille fleur but perhaps have more or less black or blue on them than they should, etc.

If you cross the leaky blues from the second generation back to Calico, you'd expect much the same as before; a small portion of blue calico/mille fleur and a variety of other patterns. Crossing the leaky blue mottled or the blue columbian back to Calico should make more blue calico/mille fleurs than with the leaky blues, about one quarter of their offspring instead of about 10 percent as with the leaky blues without visible mottling. You will not get any Blue Calico/Mille Fleur by crossing any of the black patterned birds back to Calico, however, because the blue dilution gene is a partial dominant gene, meaning if they do not have blue parts on their feathers then they do not have the gene to dilute blue to black and thus cannot pass it on to their offspring.

Interesting, i may start me a blue calico project now
You mentioned some mottling, both blue and black- Could I start my own mottled project?
Like what if I took any black or blue mottled birds and crossed them back to each other?
Also that would be line breeding correct? Since they'd be siblings.
If I were to do that what would your recommend I look for? The ones with less leakage or the ones with the best mottling? Or both?