Cochin Thread!!!

[Coopa Cabana]

WOW! I didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers (pun intended). You may notice, or not, that I edited that post almost immediately, hoping that I would get it off line before anybody saw it, but alas I was too late. Even if I wanted to get into talking about double breeding, it should have been done over on the genetics, breeding and showing thread. It's a fascinating subject that has it roots in the 40's I believe. Now I could be wrong about the era, I just didn't feel like taking the time to look it up.
SORRY..........again.

We are in the Breeds, Genetics & Showing forum, so I think it's a perfectly acceptable discussion. (As long as we all stay civil!!) The article I pulled goes back even further, being written in 1919, so it's obviously a very old practice. While the genetics may not have changed in the past 100 years, what we know about the genetics, and how all the genes interact, certainly has changed, so there is no reason why our breeding practices shouldn't change as well.

 

[dak]

No. The theory/practice of double mating pertains primarily to Varieties where the males and females of the same Variety have different color patterns and markings..

I saw on another forum a discussion regarding double mating BLACK birds of a particular breed (not Cochins) to keep correct leg color in the males vs. females. I found this discouraging. I think there is a problem with the Standard for the breed when it occurs, not the actual variety/breed.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
In countries such as Australia, their Standard does allow for variances in the Varieties coming from Cockerel Breedings and Pullet Breedings in such as Partridge:

http://pekinclub.backyardpoultry.com/index.php?page=photos.html

 

[lilcrow]

We are in the Breeds, Genetics & Showing forum, so I think it's a perfectly acceptable discussion. (As long as we all stay civil!!) The article I pulled goes back even further, being written in 1919, so it's obviously a very old practice. While the genetics may not have changed in the past 100 years, what we know about the genetics, and how all the genes interact, certainly has changed, so there is no reason why our breeding practices shouldn't change as well.

Gail, I was talking about the thread that was devoted to discussing breeding in depth, but it just never took off and I blame myself for that. You did more than your share to carry it and I think I got sidetracked by my crappy health.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

I am going to share some of the thoughts that have swirled in my head since the discussion of the single/double breeding began recently. It really good to have you back with us lilcrow! Hope to see you again soon.


1. I do not want to scare off anyone who is interested in any scarce recognized variety. I consider Silver Laced, Silver Penciled, Gold Laced, Black Tailed Red, Red, Barred, Buff Columbian, Columbian,and Lemon Blue Bantams to be uncommon. Anyone who is interested in any of these is someone I want to help in any way I can!

2.Only a few of us show but all of us want to see more of the currently rare varieties.

3. From my discussions with Matt McCammon and Tom Roebuck I realize I have to not worry about the pattern until I infuse some of the correct type thru outcrosses. Type first then bring the pattern back. It is a multi year commitment to make any real improvements with no guaranteed results.

4. I don't want to start an argument or any hard feelings.

5. All the posts about double breeding to get proper color are correct but leave out any discussion of improving the overall bird.

6. I ended up with Nancy's Partridge flock this spring. I found out how tenuous a strain can become if one person has many of a variety and a disaster happens. In my case coons killing over 100 birds this year. It could be a dog, fire,tornado, flood, or even a coated light bulb that could wipe out a strain or variety. We need to not hoard our birds but get them out among other enthusiasts who have the commitment and understand the value of keeping a rare variety going.

7. These are hobby birds and I sometimes find myself losing site of that. Not everyone wants a show bird. Most appreciate a SQ birds but some just want to have a few hatchery quality birds that breed naturally. I have to remind myself of that from time to time.

8. I want to help anyone get started showing that is interested. It is not something to shy away from. You meet the some of the nicest people through poultry and an occasional grouch.

9. I wish people could understand that most of us only keep a few hens of any variety so we don't have eggs or chicks available. Fall is about the best time to find birds.

10. I give my honest opinionated mostly unfiltered responces. Sometimes I wished my filter worked better when responding to posts.

Craig

 

[lilcrow]

Hi Craig, it's good to be back, I've been here all along just not contributing. I think your "filter" works just fine and you are a wonderful, kind, and generous member, always ready to help someone and offer support. You and Gail really keep things going and are the best teachers we have.
I couldn't agree with you more about sharing birds and insuring that a variety doesn't fade away as some have all but done. I kind of think the Birchen is a little difficult to find also. If I wanted to add something to my flock, I would have some difficulty doing it.
Right now my main problem is shutting off my incubator. Some of my birds didn't lay that well during the summer, but now they've really taken off and I HATE not incubating a perfectly beautiful egg. After all, that egg that I'm debating about hatching or putting in a cake could be my next winner. Since I was out of commission for practically the entire summer it makes it doubly difficult to stop incubating. I just don't like having birds in my living room all winter, and anything that I hatch now will be inside for much too long, depending on the weather.
I do have a couple of hens I've getting ready for the National and Junior (George's son) of course. He's developed into quite a striking young fellow, and since I lost his father this summer I don't have a second roo. It is nerve racking only having one roo and I didn't get anything that could replace him if something horrible happened like you had happen to you.
I'm off to work on my runs, etc., getting ready for winter. ARGH! I can't believe it's almost here.
I too am looking for to seeing you and all the others at the shows this fall.

 

[tkay6205]

I am going to share some of the thoughts that have swirled in my head since the discussion of the single/double breeding began recently. It really good to have you back with us lilcrow! Hope to see you again soon.


1. I do not want to scare off anyone who is interested in any scarce recognized variety. I consider Silver Laced, Silver Penciled, Gold Laced, Black Tailed Red, Red, Barred,  Buff Columbian, Columbian,and Lemon Blue Bantams to be uncommon. Anyone who is interested in any of these is someone I want to help in any way I can!

2.Only a few of us show but all of us want to see more of the currently rare varieties.

3. From my discussions with Matt McCammon and Tom Roebuck I realize I have to not worry about the pattern until I infuse some of the correct type thru outcrosses. Type first then bring the pattern back. It is a multi year commitment to make any real improvements with no guaranteed results.

4. I don't want to start an argument or any hard feelings.

5. All the posts about double breeding to get proper color are correct but leave out any discussion of improving the overall bird.

6. I ended up with Nancy's Partridge flock this spring. I found out how tenuous a strain can become if one person has many of a variety and a disaster happens. In my case coons killing over 100 birds this year. It could be a dog, fire,tornado, flood, or even a coated light bulb that could wipe out a strain or variety. We need to not hoard our birds but get them out among other enthusiasts who have the commitment and understand the value of keeping a rare variety going.

7. These are hobby birds and I sometimes find myself losing site of that. Not everyone wants a show bird. Most appreciate a SQ birds but some just want to have a few hatchery quality birds that breed naturally. I have to remind myself of that from time to time.

8. I want to help anyone get started showing that is interested. It is not something to shy away from. You meet the some of the nicest people through poultry and an occasional grouch.

9. I wish people could understand that most of us only keep a few hens of any variety so we don't have eggs or chicks available. Fall is about the best time to find birds.

10. I give my honest opinionated mostly unfiltered responces. Sometimes I wished my filter worked better when responding to posts.

Craig

Very well said!!!!

 

[AndyCap]

i do find all of this breeding talk fascinating. I have decided to cull my self blue boy, as i dont want to start off a project with a badly typed roo. On the plus side, one of my little girls is broody, and my breeder is giving me some self blue and blue eggs for her to sit on. So i may keep the best boy and girl from the batch and keep them in my separate run and keep up the self blue project, on the other hand he does also have a lovely pair of silver penciled bantams.

Decisions decisions. i might try and run both projects in separate coops. i have also had an itching to use a partridge gold male over two slw bantams and start a laced project, the breeder has agreed to take all the culls and sell them on, but i am sure that starting with decently typed silver penciled will probably be the best bet for my hobby flock. i am sure silver penciled is more rare around here then self blue. i have never seen either SL or GL in this country yet.

i am just worried with the penciled project that there may not be enough birds around here for a project, i am not sure what else i could cross them to, i have only seen one pair of columbians and they weren't the best example either.

Regardless, how many eggs can a small bantam cochin sit on safely? About 5-7? She is a first timer, but has only left the nest once per day since Saturday, and she moved the tiny food bowl i put in the coop underneath her so i am sure she is ready

 

[dajen]

With all the discussion of shows. Can anyone tell me when the next show will be near the Atlanta, GA area? Is there a website that contains this info?

 

[davony's chicks]

Quote:
Here is a link to show calendar http://www.cochinsint.com/show-calendar.html