Cochin Thread!!!

[cochin123]

Quote:
Thanx so much, Tom! As this is my 1st season with GLs, I hadn't really given any thought yet to breeding in another color to improve the type and color. So that is definitely something I will think about. I know that the big difference between the GLs and BC is the Pg gene, and as they both have the Co, so that is certainly a good option.

I only hatched out 8 chicks this spring from the pair I got from Bernita (you can see pics of the sire and dam on MyPage). Luckily, the hen appears to be throwing mostly female, so I can keep most of the girls over the winter and see how they develop. (I actually have one other darker pullet - who absolutely did not want to have her pic taken!) So 6f and 2m. Below is a pic of the first ckl to hatch (he already has a new home).

When the pair got here, I waited a full 3 weeks before I started collecting eggs to hatch, but she was obviously still fertile from another roo. I know Bernita has lots of different varieties, so I contacted her to see who the hen might have been with before she shipped her. She thought that it was probably just white showing up from a few generations back, when white was crossed in to improve type. But my understanding is that the white is recessive, and if it does surface, the bird will be all white.

So Calypso is the only ckl I have at the present from the spring breedings, and with his coloring and the fact that the first ckl had so much white, I'm still not sure that Calypso is 100% GL, but he's showing such good type (at least to me), that I want to keep him and hopefully still be able to use him.

~Gail

This is the first ckl that hatched - still an enigma as to "Who's His Daddy":
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/40221_jazz_7-181.jpg

Gail,
I took some SL Bantam pics.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0638.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0639.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0640.jpg
Pure SL Cockerel (all three pictures above). He is showing some pretty good lacing and you can see that he has some lacing in the secondary coverts area. It looks like his saddles will be a bit muddy as far as the silver lacing goes. He has a little white in his earlobes which is a problem I having. I culled a couple cockerels over the weekend that had much more white in their earlobes.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0642.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0645.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0644.jpg
This pullet is from SL x (SLxCol) cross. The lacing where she has it is good, but you can see that she's got an almost completely white front. She has willow feet, which I get a lot of from the Columbian cross.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0647.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0648.jpg
Pullet on the left is another of the SL X (SLxCol) crosses. She has some decent lacing and yellow feet. Pullet on the right is a pure SL and a bit younger than the others.

Large Golden Laced pics
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0657.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0637.jpg
These two pullets are from a GL male X the female in the photo on the right. She's the one I mentioned before that resembled a Buff Columbian. She's molting so you can't see her black tail feathers. The pullets are full sisters. It's interesting the variance you get with the crosses. They are about 5 1/2 months old and are showing good size and will be good in the type department too.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0660.jpg
GL Cockerel. I'll work on getting the ground color more even over the next couple years.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_glxpart2010.jpg
This male is from an accidental cross. GL X Partridge. 6 1/2 months old. He's a little hocky, but type and size are real good. Too light in the hackle and saddle, but it's like hitting the jackpot to get a cushion like that on a Large GL Cochin, even if he's only 50% GL. Most likely I'll breed him to the best type and colored pure GL females as well as a couple of those cross females as well.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
Thanx so much, Tom! As this is my 1st season with GLs, I hadn't really given any thought yet to breeding in another color to improve the type and color. So that is definitely something I will think about. I know that the big difference between the GLs and BC is the Pg gene, and as they both have the Co, so that is certainly a good option.

I only hatched out 8 chicks this spring from the pair I got from Bernita (you can see pics of the sire and dam on MyPage). Luckily, the hen appears to be throwing mostly female, so I can keep most of the girls over the winter and see how they develop. (I actually have one other darker pullet - who absolutely did not want to have her pic taken!) So 6f and 2m. Below is a pic of the first ckl to hatch (he already has a new home).

When the pair got here, I waited a full 3 weeks before I started collecting eggs to hatch, but she was obviously still fertile from another roo. I know Bernita has lots of different varieties, so I contacted her to see who the hen might have been with before she shipped her. She thought that it was probably just white showing up from a few generations back, when white was crossed in to improve type. But my understanding is that the white is recessive, and if it does surface, the bird will be all white.

So Calypso is the only ckl I have at the present from the spring breedings, and with his coloring and the fact that the first ckl had so much white, I'm still not sure that Calypso is 100% GL, but he's showing such good type (at least to me), that I want to keep him and hopefully still be able to use him.

~Gail

This is the first ckl that hatched - still an enigma as to "Who's His Daddy":
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/40221_jazz_7-181.jpg

Gail,
I took some SL Bantam pics.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0638.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0639.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0640.jpg
Pure SL Cockerel (all three pictures above). He is showing some pretty good lacing and you can see that he has some lacing in the secondary coverts area. It looks like his saddles will be a bit muddy as far as the silver lacing goes. He has a little white in his earlobes which is a problem I having. I culled a couple cockerels over the weekend that had much more white in their earlobes.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0642.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0645.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0644.jpg
This pullet is from SL x (SLxCol) cross. The lacing where she has it is good, but you can see that she's got an almost completely white front. She has willow feet, which I get a lot of from the Columbian cross.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0647.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0648.jpg
Pullet on the left is another of the SL X (SLxCol) crosses. She has some decent lacing and yellow feet. Pullet on the right is a pure SL and a bit younger than the others.

Large Golden Laced pics
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0657.jpg https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0637.jpg
These two pullets are from a GL male X the female in the photo on the right. She's the one I mentioned before that resembled a Buff Columbian. She's molting so you can't see her black tail feathers. The pullets are full sisters. It's interesting the variance you get with the crosses. They are about 5 1/2 months old and are showing good size and will be good in the type department too.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_dscn0660.jpg
GL Cockerel. I'll work on getting the ground color more even over the next couple years.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/15970_glxpart2010.jpg
This male is from an accidental cross. GL X Partridge. 6 1/2 months old. He's a little hocky, but type and size are real good. Too light in the hackle and saddle, but it's like hitting the jackpot to get a cushion like that on a Large GL Cochin, even if he's only 50% GL. Most likely I'll breed him to the best type and colored pure GL females as well as a couple of those cross females as well.

OK - I just made mine all stand at attention for an earlobe color check!!

This genetics game certainly isn't for the faint of heart, is it? It's probably a good thing that right now I don't have several varieties to cross with. The pics really help a lot - thanx!!
The cush on that roo is fabulous!!
I'm curious, Tom, if you advocate or practice "Double Mating" with any of your laced birds? I'm reading that that's the best way to go - concentrate on breeding good males separate from breeding for good females.
And I'm wondering at what age you actively start breeding your youngsters? I would guess that even if they are of age and capability, you wait until you're sure it's of good breeder quality - either for type or color, which may mean in some cases that you will hold back a bird for possibly a year?
With so little info available to me on GL Cochins, I've resorted to following some of the Wyandotte threads.

Maybe you can tell me if some of this holds true for Laced Cochins as well:
>Laced feathers tend to be not as 'soft' as solid-colored feathers; so wide, soft feathers are best (lacing will be better on wider feathers)

>Chicks that feather slower usually have better lacing

>Don't worry about mossiness in young chicks as it can be caused by several factors, but don't breed a 2-yr old with mossy lacing

>Watch for good hackle color - this can determine the color throughout the rest of the bird

>Watch for the lacing in the hackles - it's a must have.

 

[Country Living Farm]

I want to ask about giant cochins. I have a very nice roo. Hwo do I know if he is a Giant cochin. The person I got him from said he was a cochin and allshe did was cochins so I know he is pure with no other traits. So, his size if huge!! I swear he is bigger than my Black JG roo. I watched try to mate a hen (banton and he fell off so I think I will take her out). He is about double the size of my white, black and Part cochins as well. Got them fromt he same person. Is this a certian triat to look for to confirm he is a giant.

Tks

 

[cochinman2005]

Quote:
No such thing as a Giant Cochin. It's either Large Fowl or Bantam. If you have other Large Cochins and this one is bigger, then perhaps they are just small large fowl.

STANDARD WEIGHTS (Per the APA Standard of Perfection)

Cock...............................11 lbs. Hen.......................................8 1/2 lbs.
Cockerel...........................9 lbs. Pullet..........................................7 lbs.

 

[mjgigax]

Quote:
I wish I was closer too!!!!! I hope you all find a good home together.

 

[cochinman2005]

Quote:
So the semi-controversial topic of double mating...do I practice it? Yes to a certain degree. Of course it requires additional pens for breeding and record keeping, and you wind up with a lot of wasters in the sex that isn't the focus of the pen. I also think that you should be able to breed both good males and females from the same pen, but you will find that they are certainly fewer in number than if you had a ckl breeding pen and a pullet breeding pen. Now, it's also important to point out that many of the established solid colored lines are known for producing better males than females or vice versa. I am very much still learning with the laced varieties, but I do believe that if you can get a male with nice lacing in his wing coverts, that ultimately that bird will be fairly well laced throughout. Same holds true for females too.

What age birds do I use for breeding. I hatch in February through May. I will use year old birds, but I find that the true test of how good or bad a bird really is, comes with their first annual molt. As a year old bird, they may have good wings, good eyes, good feather quality, but once they go through their first adult molt, are these things still good? With my large fowl I am not afraid to use ckls and pullets, but with the bantams, many times I'll use 2 year old birds and just watch the yearling birds for another season. Depends on the variety too. If you cull real hard you may not have the luxury of having a pen of 10 hens waiting in the wings for breeding season. It's a personal breeder choice I think.

Feather width. With Cochins, wider is always better. Gives you a better overall appearance to the bird and underfluff doesn't show through in the cushion. The lacing will look much nicer on a wide feather and wider feathers by design will have more fluff on them giving the bird a more massive (fluffy) appearance.

(Chicks that feather slower usually have better lacing) I'd say that is true. With the Barreds it is certainly true. Makes it tough to keep them with other varieties when they are growing out. Half naked chickens make easy targets for feather picking.

(Don't worry about mossiness in young chicks as it can be caused by several factors, but don't breed a 2-yr old with mossy lacing) I would certainly keep an eye on chicks with excessive mossiness and if after they have their adult feathers you still have that mossiness, I'd be wary of using that bird, although you also have to weigh your choices, and use the best that you have. If it's a mossy pullet that shows the best type and color then that's what you have to go with, but try to breed her to a male with good crisp lacing and clear centers.

(Watch for good hackle color - this can determine the color throughout the rest of the bird) Agree. Follows my wing coverts theory. Same holds true for my Columbians.

(Watch for the lacing in the hackles - it's a must have) - I'd agree with this too. This year I focused on clear hackles in the females I used in the Columbian matings with much better results than previous years.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
So the semi-controversial topic of double mating...do I practice it? Yes to a certain degree. Of course it requires additional pens for breeding and record keeping, and you wind up with a lot of wasters in the sex that isn't the focus of the pen. I also think that you should be able to breed both good males and females from the same pen, but you will find that they are certainly fewer in number than if you had a ckl breeding pen and a pullet breeding pen. Now, it's also important to point out that many of the established solid colored lines are known for producing better males than females or vice versa. I am very much still learning with the laced varieties, but I do believe that if you can get a male with nice lacing in his wing coverts, that ultimately that bird will be fairly well laced throughout. Same holds true for females too.

What age birds do I use for breeding. I hatch in February through May. I will use year old birds, but I find that the true test of how good or bad a bird really is, comes with their first annual molt. As a year old bird, they may have good wings, good eyes, good feather quality, but once they go through their first adult molt, are these things still good? With my large fowl I am not afraid to use ckls and pullets, but with the bantams, many times I'll use 2 year old birds and just watch the yearling birds for another season. Depends on the variety too. If you cull real hard you may not have the luxury of having a pen of 10 hens waiting in the wings for breeding season. It's a personal breeder choice I think.

Feather width. With Cochins, wider is always better. Gives you a better overall appearance to the bird and underfluff doesn't show through in the cushion. The lacing will look much nicer on a wide feather and wider feathers by design will have more fluff on them giving the bird a more massive (fluffy) appearance.

(Chicks that feather slower usually have better lacing) I'd say that is true. With the Barreds it is certainly true. Makes it tough to keep them with other varieties when they are growing out. Half naked chickens make easy targets for feather picking.

(Don't worry about mossiness in young chicks as it can be caused by several factors, but don't breed a 2-yr old with mossy lacing) I would certainly keep an eye on chicks with excessive mossiness and if after they have their adult feathers you still have that mossiness, I'd be wary of using that bird, although you also have to weigh your choices, and use the best that you have. If it's a mossy pullet that shows the best type and color then that's what you have to go with, but try to breed her to a male with good crisp lacing and clear centers.

(Watch for good hackle color - this can determine the color throughout the rest of the bird) Agree. Follows my wing coverts theory. Same holds true for my Columbians.

(Watch for the lacing in the hackles - it's a must have) - I'd agree with this too. This year I focused on clear hackles in the females I used in the Columbian matings with much better results than previous years.

Tom, this has all been so very helpful and educational. Thank-you, Thank-you, Thank-you! I have to make my biggest cut in time for our local swap on September 12th - I just don't have the facilities to over-winter everyone. Then, hopefully, in late winter or early spring I can start fine tuning what I have left. I know the numbers I am dealing with are so small compared to how many you hatch every year, and it really should be easy because I have fewer birds to assess, but it really makes my decisions so much more crucial in making the right selections.
And I'm sure the birds are getting very tired of being greeted every day with "OK - show me what you've got!".

(I feel like an NFL coach - trying to get my roster down before the season starts. I wish I had the luxury of putting some on the practice squad!)
~Gail

 

[swheat]

Comment on the this roo..Good points & his faults. His wing coverts are solid and not laced so I guess he does not have enough and/or quality lacing ?

 

[magsrags]

Quote:
So the semi-controversial topic of double mating...do I practice it? Yes to a certain degree. Of course it requires additional pens for breeding and record keeping, and you wind up with a lot of wasters in the sex that isn't the focus of the pen. I also think that you should be able to breed both good males and females from the same pen, but you will find that they are certainly fewer in number than if you had a ckl breeding pen and a pullet breeding pen. Now, it's also important to point out that many of the established solid colored lines are known for producing better males than females or vice versa. I am very much still learning with the laced varieties, but I do believe that if you can get a male with nice lacing in his wing coverts, that ultimately that bird will be fairly well laced throughout. Same holds true for females too.

What age birds do I use for breeding. I hatch in February through May. I will use year old birds, but I find that the true test of how good or bad a bird really is, comes with their first annual molt. As a year old bird, they may have good wings, good eyes, good feather quality, but once they go through their first adult molt, are these things still good? With my large fowl I am not afraid to use ckls and pullets, but with the bantams, many times I'll use 2 year old birds and just watch the yearling birds for another season. Depends on the variety too. If you cull real hard you may not have the luxury of having a pen of 10 hens waiting in the wings for breeding season. It's a personal breeder choice I think.

Feather width. With Cochins, wider is always better. Gives you a better overall appearance to the bird and underfluff doesn't show through in the cushion. The lacing will look much nicer on a wide feather and wider feathers by design will have more fluff on them giving the bird a more massive (fluffy) appearance.

(Chicks that feather slower usually have better lacing) I'd say that is true. With the Barreds it is certainly true. Makes it tough to keep them with other varieties when they are growing out. Half naked chickens make easy targets for feather picking.

(Don't worry about mossiness in young chicks as it can be caused by several factors, but don't breed a 2-yr old with mossy lacing) I would certainly keep an eye on chicks with excessive mossiness and if after they have their adult feathers you still have that mossiness, I'd be wary of using that bird, although you also have to weigh your choices, and use the best that you have. If it's a mossy pullet that shows the best type and color then that's what you have to go with, but try to breed her to a male with good crisp lacing and clear centers.

(Watch for good hackle color - this can determine the color throughout the rest of the bird) Agree. Follows my wing coverts theory. Same holds true for my Columbians.

(Watch for the lacing in the hackles - it's a must have) - I'd agree with this too. This year I focused on clear hackles in the females I used in the Columbian matings with much better results than previous years.

Tom, this has all been so very helpful and educational. Thank-you, Thank-you, Thank-you! I have to make my biggest cut in time for our local swap on September 12th - I just don't have the facilities to over-winter everyone. Then, hopefully, in late winter or early spring I can start fine tuning what I have left. I know the numbers I am dealing with are so small compared to how many you hatch every year, and it really should be easy because I have fewer birds to assess, but it really makes my decisions so much more crucial in making the right selections.
And I'm sure the birds are getting very tired of being greeted every day with "OK - show me what you've got!".

(I feel like an NFL coach - trying to get my roster down before the season starts. I wish I had the luxury of putting some on the practice squad!)
~Gail

 

[BluffCountryShepherdess]

Quote:
I'm no expert but I'd say he's GORGEOUS!