Cochin Thread!!!

[lilcrow]

Yes, I agree with Rosey, they all start out looking like pullets. I have also been told and found it to be true that the pullets begin getting their back feathers in before the boys. When comparing chicks of the same age, if you have one with wing feathers, but down on it's back and another with wing feathers and feathers beginning to come in in a line down the back, that chick will more than likely be a pullet. Mandy (Cochin Coop) is VERY good at sexing chicks and she has noticed that the males have stockier legs than the females frequently. Now I'm talking about very young chicks, like less than 2 wks. When they are a month or so old, it is frequently easy to tell what sex they are by their combs, color pattern and general overall look, this is true of any variety. The Partridges, and Silver Penciled are easy to sex at an early age due to the pattern discrepancy. Where I have difficulty is determining how they will mature out and look when they are grown, they change SO much. Birchens can be tricky that way, but there are things that can help you determine how they will mature. After you've been breeding for a while, you'll get better at seeing all these things, and eventually you can even look at some week old babies and guess it's sex pretty well, particularly the cockerels.

I have a question and if I missed the answer in any of the previous post I am very sorry.

I know answering the same question over and over has to get a lit bit tiring.
So my question is, I have five partridge bantam Cochin chicks, and they all have pattern/ penciling in their feathers all over their bodies. Since the roosters and hens are different patterned is this any indication on sex? Or do they both start off with the same Feather pattern and change later on. They are four weeks old.

Thanks everyone.
A.J.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

Several have mentioned AI.
I am posting an article on how to AI by a long time Cochin Breeder by Karl Rau



His #1 rule is that males must be in individual cage or it does not work.
[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times][/FONT]

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]

by Karl F. Rau
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]Breeding Cochin Bantams can be accomplished through normal mating procedures ( Natural pen mating) or through a process of Artificial Insemination. The vast majority of cochin breeders today use A. I. Once learned its easy ...fast...and in most cases gives one 90+% fertility. I have been asked by many and often ...."how do you do it?" .... I have even been asked to demonstrate while standing in the show aisles! I will attempt to verbally demonstrate how I use A.I., there are other variations but this has worked for me for over 20 years. If you have further questions please email me.
Before I begin, I feel its necessary to explain some things that will "prohibit" successful A. I. .... if you don't heed these warnings you will probably not succeed.
1. Males must not be running with other birds at the time of A.I. Simply stated, they might have used up all their semen.... even if they are in an all male pen! We individually pen all our birds, both males and females... however, its only necessary to keep the males separate. The size of the pen they are in isn't important... whether its 2' x 2' or 10' x 10'...
2. When catching the male for A. I. it is important that he is not "chased" around the pen or cage.... if he becomes frightened, he probably will not produce semen for you.... it only makes sense...right???
3. After catching the male, the process explained below must be performed within a minute or so ( the quicker the better) ... if one waits too long you will probably fail to get semen.
4. If you fail to get any semen from the male... don't keep trying...put him back and try again later in the day or the next day.
5. Even if you do all the right things... success sometimes comes only after 3 - 4 attempts (on different days). I have owned males that never did give any semen, but this is rare. Only 1 in 50 will not produce for you.
6. If you follow the procedure below and his "male parts" do not protrude with your first attempt...quit and try again later.
7. When I started breeding cochins long ago... the first time I tried I failed miserably.... should I tell you I almost cried! But before long .... I began to see success...keep at it and you will to.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]The Procedure[/FONT]​

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]I developed this technique so that I did not have to rely on a helper. Also I am right handed.
I catch the male and sit in my chair. I place his legs between my knees ... this might seem difficult at first, but once mastered it becomes easy. The male's head is facing to my left..tail to the right. with my left hand I place my palm on his back and with one fairly quick motion rub ( squeeze) his back in a motion towards his tail area... this is to stimulate him. When you do this ... he will (hopefully) invert (push out ) his "male parts". They are pink in color and perhaps 3/8 - 1/2" in length. Very quickly with your right thumb and first finger... squeeze /milk his male parts ... it is not necessary to squeeze hard...start close to his body and squeeze towards the right ... if you are successful and "he likes you"...haha... then you will see 2-4 drops of white semen .... previously (before starting) I had attached a white plastic spoon ( disposable ones purchased at any store) to a table's edge using a spring clamp purchased at a hardware store. Your chair should have been positioned so that when the drops of semen become visible...you are holding the male close enough to the spoon so that they drip into the spoon. Once the semen is in the spoon...return the male to his pen.
Get the female.... sit in your chair... hold the female upside down between your legs ( her head down/ tail up... your knees on either side of her wings). While holding her with your knees, get the spoon with the semen and drip the semen into her vent... you will notice that when she feels contact with the semen... her muscles will appear to pull the semen into her body. I usually hold her upside down for 20-30 seconds, then put her back into her pen... that's it...you are done!
I have been told to use tuberculin syringes and other means for collecting the semen... I have found the spoons to be cheap and easy to get and best of all they work!
There are varied schools of thought as to how often should one inseminate... the books say semen is good for 10 days inside the female.. I, however, dispute that. I breed each female every other day and find that if I go to every 3rd day the fertility lessens.[/FONT]​

 

[lilcrow]

I'm not the best judge of LF Cochins, but I'm going to say from what I've seen at shows that your money wasn't squandered. There is a LF Cochin thread here on BYC and that would be the best place to ask for an opinion. Tom Roebuck is a major contributor to the LF Cochins and he is very kind and extremely helpful, he would be able to tell you for sure, take anything he says to heart. He'll give you honest, helpful criticism, by letting you know what his strong points are and where he's weak. That will give you what you need to know so that you can breed him the best way possible.
I like your guy a lot for what that's worth. Lucky you that you have a vet that is good enough to doctor your chickens. I haven't found a real vet yet that I trust with my birds, and certainly not one I can afford. I'd say $200 for surgery was a great price and it looks like you got great results.
Oh, and your question about Mottled, no they will lighten up after each molt, so if they are very light now, they will be too light as they get older.

A few questions:

Will a mottled bird darken up as it molts the second time....losing the white feathers for more of the black? I have some babies that are mottled.

In LF cochins....at the age of 9 weeks, shouldn't I be able to distinguish the roos by thei size of the comb? I have not had cochin chicks in such a long time. With other breeds, I can sex by the feathers on their backs as well as the combs. I think the one on the left is a pullet and the one on the right is a cockerel.....am I correct? These babies are from eggs purchased from Jim Heintz.



Third question....this is Popeye. Is his type condusive to breeding? I spent almost $200 for surgery for him when he was about 5 months. He had a sinus infection where the sinus became impacted. That's why his name is Popeye. He is now over a year old. His bloodline is Bo Garretts but he was purchased from another breeder.

 

[lilcrow]

WOW!!! Craig, this is great and confirms what Mandy has been telling me about my birds. She keeps telling me I need to crate them at night and then collect in the morning before they go back with their girls. Thanks so much for this article.

Several have mentioned AI.
I am posting an article on how to AI by a long time Cochin Breeder by Karl Rau



His #1 rule is that males must be in individual cage or it does not work.
[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times][/FONT]

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]

by Karl F. Rau
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]Breeding Cochin Bantams can be accomplished through normal mating procedures ( Natural pen mating) or through a process of Artificial Insemination. The vast majority of cochin breeders today use A. I. Once learned its easy ...fast...and in most cases gives one 90+% fertility. I have been asked by many and often ...."how do you do it?" .... I have even been asked to demonstrate while standing in the show aisles! I will attempt to verbally demonstrate how I use A.I., there are other variations but this has worked for me for over 20 years. If you have further questions please email me.
Before I begin, I feel its necessary to explain some things that will "prohibit" successful A. I. .... if you don't heed these warnings you will probably not succeed.
1. Males must not be running with other birds at the time of A.I. Simply stated, they might have used up all their semen.... even if they are in an all male pen! We individually pen all our birds, both males and females... however, its only necessary to keep the males separate. The size of the pen they are in isn't important... whether its 2' x 2' or 10' x 10'...
2. When catching the male for A. I. it is important that he is not "chased" around the pen or cage.... if he becomes frightened, he probably will not produce semen for you.... it only makes sense...right???
3. After catching the male, the process explained below must be performed within a minute or so ( the quicker the better) ... if one waits too long you will probably fail to get semen.
4. If you fail to get any semen from the male... don't keep trying...put him back and try again later in the day or the next day.
5. Even if you do all the right things... success sometimes comes only after 3 - 4 attempts (on different days). I have owned males that never did give any semen, but this is rare. Only 1 in 50 will not produce for you.
6. If you follow the procedure below and his "male parts" do not protrude with your first attempt...quit and try again later.
7. When I started breeding cochins long ago... the first time I tried I failed miserably.... should I tell you I almost cried! But before long .... I began to see success...keep at it and you will to.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]The Procedure[/FONT]​

[FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]I developed this technique so that I did not have to rely on a helper. Also I am right handed.
I catch the male and sit in my chair. I place his legs between my knees ... this might seem difficult at first, but once mastered it becomes easy. The male's head is facing to my left..tail to the right. with my left hand I place my palm on his back and with one fairly quick motion rub ( squeeze) his back in a motion towards his tail area... this is to stimulate him. When you do this ... he will (hopefully) invert (push out ) his "male parts". They are pink in color and perhaps 3/8 - 1/2" in length. Very quickly with your right thumb and first finger... squeeze /milk his male parts ... it is not necessary to squeeze hard...start close to his body and squeeze towards the right ... if you are successful and "he likes you"...haha... then you will see 2-4 drops of white semen .... previously (before starting) I had attached a white plastic spoon ( disposable ones purchased at any store) to a table's edge using a spring clamp purchased at a hardware store. Your chair should have been positioned so that when the drops of semen become visible...you are holding the male close enough to the spoon so that they drip into the spoon. Once the semen is in the spoon...return the male to his pen.
Get the female.... sit in your chair... hold the female upside down between your legs ( her head down/ tail up... your knees on either side of her wings). While holding her with your knees, get the spoon with the semen and drip the semen into her vent... you will notice that when she feels contact with the semen... her muscles will appear to pull the semen into her body. I usually hold her upside down for 20-30 seconds, then put her back into her pen... that's it...you are done!
I have been told to use tuberculin syringes and other means for collecting the semen... I have found the spoons to be cheap and easy to get and best of all they work!
There are varied schools of thought as to how often should one inseminate... the books say semen is good for 10 days inside the female.. I, however, dispute that. I breed each female every other day and find that if I go to every 3rd day the fertility lessens.[/FONT]​

 

[carolynm]

I have been an admirer of Cochins for a while now...I was trying to wait until I make my move to CO in May to acquire any but when I saw this pair for sale - I couldn't resist. Meet Harry & Ginny my Splash Bantam Pair!



Harry -he is really photogenetic


And this is the hen "Ginny"


I'm not sure about Harry's coloring -is he true "Splash"? I think he's pretty whatever color he is.

My daughter would like to raise some 4-H show chickens so I'm curious what we need to look for in their chicks. I know they should have 5 distinct lobes on their comb -I think Harry's could definitely use some improvement there, and probably more hackles too. When can you pick chicks out for show quality?

 

[Green Chicken]

Thank you very much lilcrow

 

[NanaKat]

Thank you for that information lilcrow about Tom Roebuck. I had not picked up on the knowledge that there were two Cochin threads...one for Bantams and one for LF.
Yes, I feel very fortunate to have found an avian vet who is reasonably priced and very interested in learning more about poultry.

I'm not the best judge of LF Cochins, but I'm going to say from what I've seen at shows that your money wasn't squandered. There is a LF Cochin thread here on BYC and that would be the best place to ask for an opinion. Tom Roebuck is a major contributor to the LF Cochins and he is very kind and extremely helpful, he would be able to tell you for sure, take anything he says to heart. He'll give you honest, helpful criticism, by letting you know what his strong points are and where he's weak. That will give you what you need to know so that you can breed him the best way possible.
I like your guy a lot for what that's worth. Lucky you that you have a vet that is good enough to doctor your chickens. I haven't found a real vet yet that I trust with my birds, and certainly not one I can afford. I'd say $200 for surgery was a great price and it looks like you got great results.
Oh, and your question about Mottled, no they will lighten up after each molt, so if they are very light now, they will be too light as they get older.

 

[Bo Garrett]

NanaKat,
The large fowl pullets will feather completely before the cockerels will and the cockerels will have obviously larger abdomens at an early age. I can sex them about 100% at a week to two weeks by the abdomens alone.
The black cockerel you show pictured doesn't look to have come from my bloodlines just by looking at his general type and head structure. Beware those who will sell birds using another breeder line as their selling point. When birds leave my place they become the property of the owner and their breeding program, I have no control over their further breeding or care. Given his lack of head structure and cushion as well as the slipped wing I would not put him in a breeding pen as you will only get more of the same. There are times when others here feel I may be a bit critical but when asked questions, especially if the birds are referenced as from my line, I will give you an honest and truthful assessment of the bird based on the question asked.

Yes, the mottled birds will loose the white breast feathers for black feathers tipped with white.

If you desire birds from my line please do not hesitate to PM me for bird availability this fall as I will deliver to shows I attend or ship.

P.S.
Your splash chicks look very good and are pullets the black is a cockerel.

Blessings to you,


Bo

A few questions:

Will a mottled bird darken up as it molts the second time....losing the white feathers for more of the black? I have some babies that are mottled.

In LF cochins....at the age of 9 weeks, shouldn't I be able to distinguish the roos by thei size of the comb? I have not had cochin chicks in such a long time. With other breeds, I can sex by the feathers on their backs as well as the combs. I think the one on the left is a pullet and the one on the right is a cockerel.....am I correct? These babies are from eggs purchased from Jim Heintz.



Third question....this is Popeye. Is his type condusive to breeding? I spent almost $200 for surgery for him when he was about 5 months. He had a sinus infection where the sinus became impacted. That's why his name is Popeye. He is now over a year old. His bloodline is Bo Garretts but he was purchased from another breeder.

 

[lilcrow]

Oh dear, obviously Bo understood your question about Mottleds much better than I did. I forgot that they have the tuxedo pattern when young and was only thinking of a bird that already had it's mottled pattern. Sorry for misunderstanding your question, and I'm so glad you got the necessary feedback about your birds.

NanaKat,
The large fowl pullets will feather completely before the cockerels will and the cockerels will have obviously larger abdomens at an early age. I can sex them about 100% at a week to two weeks by the abdomens alone.
The black cockerel you show pictured doesn't look to have come from my bloodlines just by looking at his general type and head structure. Beware those who will sell birds using another breeder line as their selling point. When birds leave my place they become the property of the owner and their breeding program, I have no control over their further breeding or care. Given his lack of head structure and cushion as well as the slipped wing I would not put him in a breeding pen as you will only get more of the same. There are times when others here feel I may be a bit critical but when asked questions, especially if the birds are referenced as from my line, I will give you an honest and truthful assessment of the bird based on the question asked.

Yes, the mottled birds will loose the white breast feathers for black feathers tipped with white.

If you desire birds from my line please do not hesitate to PM me for bird availability this fall as I will deliver to shows I attend or ship.

P.S.
Your splash chicks look very good and are pullets the black is a cockerel.

Blessings to you,


Bo

 

[County Boy]

when you hatch cochin chicks, does the poop get stuck in their chick hair. My do and how can i stop it.