Cochin Thread!!!

[cochins1088]

Something I've been asking myself lately about my breeding program, and I thought I'd ask the thread members as well. We all know that it can sometimes take a few years and/or generations to achieve the results we are looking for, whether it be correcting type, color, pattern, or all of the above. So here's my question to everyone - try to limit your answers to just one or two sentences.

What is your 3-year (or 5-year) goal for your Cochin flock and breeding program?

Well I'm new, but I thought I'd share anyways.

In 3 to 5 years I hope to better understand the genetics of cochins and know all of the standards for cochin bantams. I also hope to have some quality silver laced cochins. I really wanted to take one variety of cochin and try to imporve them. I looked up all the current colors and decided I liked the Silver Laced pattern the best. So I bought some hatching eggs and now have a few chicks but I'm a bit worried that I've choosen something that may be too difficult for a beginner like me. I will give it my best shot and look at you guys for advice. And thanks, you all have been very helpful!

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Something I've been asking myself lately about my breeding program, and I thought I'd ask the thread members as well. We all know that it can sometimes take a few years and/or generations to achieve the results we are looking for, whether it be correcting type, color, pattern, or all of the above. So here's my question to everyone - try to limit your answers to just one or two sentences.

What is your 3-year (or 5-year) goal for your Cochin flock and breeding program?

I suppose it's not fair to ask others what their goals are without posting my own. But hopefully I've got you all thinking. It is my opinion that if you are a serious breeder - you should have a (focused) goal, and a plan to get you there.

My goals, while they may seem short and sweet, for those of you that know the anal perfectionist in me, you know that they are anything but short and sweet:

1) 3-Year: To breed Golden Laced Bantams worthy of a show entry fee (and actually show them!).

2) 5-Year: To be the "Go To" breeder of quality Golden Laced Bantams.

This may seem be a bit agressive and pompous, but I believe Golden Laced deserve no less!!

 

[tiki244]

Someone please tell me if I am wrong but to be honest I cannot see improving my cochins to any better quality if I do not buy some better lines. Mine have the wrong color eyes, and just not quite as big as the norm and etc... I really don't see how a person, no matter how much patience they have, can get an award winning cochin by just selective breeding.Especially if the size is off. Maybe I am wrong. ? ?

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Someone please tell me if I am wrong but to be honest I cannot see improving my cochins to any better quality if I do not buy some better lines. Mine have the wrong color eyes, and just not quite as big as the norm and etc... I really don't see how a person, no matter how much patience they have, can get an award winning cochin by just selective breeding.Especially if the size is off. Maybe I am wrong. ? ?

Kris, I believe you are correct. I'm bringing in a pair of Buff Columbians this fall to cross into my GL's in the next spring. Hopefuly to not only improve the lacing, but type as well.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Quote:
I want to add - I'm following a lot of the threads on the CI Forum as well - in particular the current one regarding foot and shank color, and eliminating willow legs. I'M LEARNING A LOT!!!
Here's a link to the thread:

http://showbirdbid.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cif&action=display&thread=4252

 

[Sanna]

Someone please tell me if I am wrong but to be honest I cannot see improving my cochins to any better quality if I do not buy some better lines. Mine have the wrong color eyes, and just not quite as big as the norm and etc... I really don't see how a person, no matter how much patience they have, can get an award winning cochin by just selective breeding.Especially if the size is off. Maybe I am wrong. ? ?

I'm not a breeder but like you said yourself, you cannot see improving unless you buy better lines. Isn't that the answer to your own question right there? If you want to improve but your own flock is not improving with time and patience, your flock is missing something. If it was me, I would look for whatever you feel your flock needs improvement on, outside of your own breeding. If you don't have anything to improve with, I doubt that it will happen on it's own.

 

[mibirder]

Kris -

My Uncle, who raised exhibition pigeons in one breed for over forty years, taught me several important breeder philosophies. These apply to pigeons, chickens, and probably most exhibition stock.

1. Develop a breeder's eye. You should be able to close your eyes and see a standard perfect bird. But most importantly, you should be able to see the parts that go into making your vision the standard perfect bird.

2. In development breeding, see the parts of the standard and correct them in bite sized pieces. You can't correct all the faults a line may have in a single generation and some individual faults may each take several generations. However, once a fault is eliminated, don't ever go back to it.

3. Know a bird's strengths and it's weaknesses. Breed to its strengths, but keep in mind that sometimes the best bred together don't always produce the best. ( My favorite example are my nearly white looking splashes bred from breeding my best splashes together - the pale blue just washes out. Opps, lesson learned.)

4. Learn how to correct faults through complementary matings. The likelihood of two narrow Cochins producing anything but more narrow bodies is pretty small. But a narrow body with strengths may be of value if the strengths improve a wide body line in the second or third generation.

While its true that starting with good stock with fewer faults is helpful, there can be much pride in improving lesser birds too especially if they move your breeders closer to the standard. Development breeding is designed to be a longer process than simply breeding champions from champions. In general, the first 80% of the changes can come quickly and easily. The last 10 or 20% may take a lifetime.

I knew a Buff Orpington breeder who never brought his Champion's home from a show - he sold them or gave them away. He's reason was, they were done. His pride came from being patient and working a few years to duplicating his success using the breeding knowledge gained each time. I swear, just before he died, he could take two crows and make champion Orpingtons from their line by good breeding and bringing in birds to correct their faults in a minimal number of generations.

I could be wrong about your situation, but don't get discouraged, get excited - Spring will be here before you know it.

Dave

 

[Sanna]

Kris -
My Uncle, who raised exhibition pigeons in one breed for over forty years, taught me several important breeder philosophies. These apply to pigeons, chickens, and probably most exhibition stock.
1. Develop a breeder's eye. You should be able to close your eyes and see a standard perfect bird. But most importantly, you should be able to see the parts that go into making your vision the standard perfect bird.
2. In development breeding, see the parts of the standard and correct them in bite sized pieces. You can't correct all the faults a line may have in a single generation and some individual faults may each take several generations. However, once a fault is eliminated, don't ever go back to it.
3. Know a bird's strengths and it's weaknesses. Breed to its strengths, but keep in mind that sometimes the best bred together don't always produce the best. ( My favorite example are my nearly white looking splashes bred from breeding my best splashes together - the pale blue just washes out. Opps, lesson learned.)
4. Learn how to correct faults through complementary matings. The likelihood of two narrow Cochins producing anything but more narrow bodies is pretty small. But a narrow body with strengths may be of value if the strengths improve a wide body line in the second or third generation.
While its true that starting with good stock with fewer faults is helpful, there can be much pride in improving lesser birds too especially if they move your breeders closer to the standard. Development breeding is designed to be a longer process than simply breeding champions from champions. In general, the first 80% of the changes can come quickly and easily. The last 10 or 20% may take a lifetime.
I knew a Buff Orpington breeder who never brought his Champion's home from a show - he sold them or gave them away. He's reason was, they were done. His pride came from being patient and working a few years to duplicating his success using the breeding knowledge gained each time. I swear, just before he died, he could take two crows and make champion Orpingtons from their line by good breeding and bringing in birds to correct their faults in a minimal number of generations.
I could be wrong about your situation, but don't get discouraged, get excited - Spring will be here before you know it.
Dave

That is excellent!

I'm copying this and saving it on my laptop for future.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

Kris -

My Uncle, who raised exhibition pigeons in one breed for over forty years, taught me several important breeder philosophies. These apply to pigeons, chickens, and probably most exhibition stock.

1. Develop a breeder's eye. You should be able to close your eyes and see a standard perfect bird. But most importantly, you should be able to see the parts that go into making your vision the standard perfect bird.

2. In development breeding, see the parts of the standard and correct them in bite sized pieces. You can't correct all the faults a line may have in a single generation and some individual faults may each take several generations. However, once a fault is eliminated, don't ever go back to it.

3. Know a bird's strengths and it's weaknesses. Breed to its strengths, but keep in mind that sometimes the best bred together don't always produce the best. ( My favorite example are my nearly white looking splashes bred from breeding my best splashes together - the pale blue just washes out. Opps, lesson learned.)

4. Learn how to correct faults through complementary matings. The likelihood of two narrow Cochins producing anything but more narrow bodies is pretty small. But a narrow body with strengths may be of value if the strengths improve a wide body line in the second or third generation.

While its true that starting with good stock with fewer faults is helpful, there can be much pride in improving lesser birds too especially if they move your breeders closer to the standard. Development breeding is designed to be a longer process than simply breeding champions from champions. In general, the first 80% of the changes can come quickly and easily. The last 10 or 20% may take a lifetime.

I knew a Buff Orpington breeder who never brought his Champion's home from a show - he sold them or gave them away. He's reason was, they were done. His pride came from being patient and working a few years to duplicating his success using the breeding knowledge gained each time. I swear, just before he died, he could take two crows and make champion Orpingtons from their line by good breeding and bringing in birds to correct their faults in a minimal number of generations.

I could be wrong about your situation, but don't get discouraged, get excited - Spring will be here before you know it.

Dave

EXCELLENT POST, DAVE!! There is something there for everyone. In regards to #2 above, I always refer back to this post by Jerry Foley (regarding his SL Wyandotte breeding) over on SBB, but it applies to all breeds and breeders.

"Last year I decided to cull for two mains things...leg color and correct primary wing color in my males. I was tired of getting nice cockerels that had light colored shanks and incorrect primary color pattern.

I culled some really nice typed birds..and I have to admit I got a little worried that I had through the baby out with the bath water.

But this year...boy am I glad I did it...I cant believe how many young silver laced I have in the grow out pens with bright deep yellow legs and correct primary wing color...and my type on them does not seem to be any worse for all that culling.

I guess it is true what they say...the only fault you have in your birds is the one you allow to be there.

Jerry"

​

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

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Someone please tell me if I am wrong but to be honest I cannot see improving my cochins to any better quality if I do not buy some better lines. Mine have the wrong color eyes, and just not quite as big as the norm and etc... I really don't see how a person, no matter how much patience they have, can get an award winning cochin by just selective breeding.Especially if the size is off. Maybe I am wrong. ? ?

Kris, I believe you are correct. I'm bringing in a pair of Buff Columbians this fall to cross into my GL's in the next spring. Hopefuly to not only improve the lacing, but type as well.



~Gail~ My 2003 Mid-Life Crisis: My small backyard flock of Bantams: Coopa Cabana Cochins! In 2012, my focus will be to improve my Golden Laced and continue with my Blue Laced Red Project.
Got Cochins? Want Cochins? Check out the 2012 Cochin Breeders Directory!
NPIP #84-111. Member ABA; Cochins International; Rocky Mountain Feather Fanciers


I believe it CAN be done. However with the price of feed and only so many years on this earth I think it is wise to buy the Best stock you can find when you decide you want to raise quality birds or any livestock for that matter. Kris you know where I would send you if you want better birds.

Craig