Coexisting with wildlife-possible?

[gotpoodle]

This is one of the first 'Predators and Pests' topics I've enjoyed in a long time! Thank you all for sharing your thoughts...

 

[catfish/okie]

Great Horned Owls will eat chickens. Longeared Owls will eat chickens. ( I killed one of these in the act ). Barred owls may eat chickens. I dont think Barn Owls and Screech owls would kill grown chickens but I would guess screech owls may kill chicks. My neighbor has homing pigeons and the hawks that catch them does not seem interested in my chickens though they take cover when they spot one flying over head. These are not red tailed hawks.

 

[dacjohns]

Quote:
Don't say that in open forum unless you did it legally, like with a permit, and then say you did it with a permit.

 

[ruth]

We are surrounded by thousands of acres of forest (no neighbors) with everything from bear and bobcats to foxes and coyotes. We have over 200 chickens, plus ducks, geese, peafowl, and goats and everyone free ranges - no fences. We have five working livestock guard dogs who are also always free and work the property. The do a great job of keeping the property, to the perimeter, and slightly into the woods predator free. We have some chickens that return to one of the coops at night and are closed up and the goats get closed in a pen around the stables at night but other than that, there are no fences and everyone is free. There are chickens sleeping on the ground, in our carport, in bushes and trees and even with the dogs in the dog beds. There are two GSDs and a Great Pyreneese and a catahoula mix that live with our livestock. One of the GSDs, Rex, will spot a hawk (or buzzard) way in the distance and begin chasing it and barking. We have occasionally lost a chicken to a predator. Normally it's in the Spring when the mama bobcats and foxes are trying to feed their young and get rather desperate. They have been spotted running out of the edge of the woods and grabbing a chicken that got too far into the woods. While I don't like losing a bird, I love the wildlife and know they must survive also. We have an organic farm and don't use pesticides, herbicides or even fertilizer so of course we don't shoot, kill, or trap the wildlife. It's sort of a Circle of Life thing going on. The dogs mostly keep them away and everyone respects the boundaries.

The interesting thing about the chickens is that they learn. If a group is with one that gets grabbed in the woods, they return to the coop/yard area and never stray from the yard again and they seem to teach their young the same thing.

So, yes, they can all coexist.

 

[chooniecat]

Quote:
I agree (altho most of us have neighbors too close and if my neighbors dog comes on my property I will defend(if need be)and there are soooo many variances in peoples tolerance. I have 50 acres on 2 sides and crop land surrounding the rest and in 8 yrs of chickendom have NEVER lost one to wild critters. I set hav-a-hearts 24/7 and wild critters caught get a fright and spraypainted/released and have never had a repeat. domestics get neutered if needed and during the day we've been lucky with the various and much appreciated hawks that are here. most humans seem to want to kill everything that might threaten tho. I DID have to euthanize 2 stray beagles that killed 3 4h buns and they were not collared/chipped/or neutered so can only assume previous "owners" were uncaring idiots. sad.(understand that feral dogs and cats ARE still domestic animals and generally don't do well (unless they've discovered all of our birds)so its best to get em neutered)

 

[ruth]

Quote:
I agree (altho most of us have neighbors too close and if my neighbors dog comes on my property I will defend(if need be)and there are soooo many variances in peoples tolerance. I have 50 acres on 2 sides and crop land surrounding the rest and in 8 yrs of chickendom have NEVER lost one to wild critters. I set hav-a-hearts 24/7 and wild critters caught get a fright and spraypainted/released and have never had a repeat. domestics get neutered if needed and during the day we've been lucky with the various and much appreciated hawks that are here. most humans seem to want to kill everything that might threaten tho. I DID have to euthanize 2 stray beagles that killed 3 4h buns and they were not collared/chipped/or neutered so can only assume previous "owners" were uncaring idiots. sad.

My "neighbors" actually ask if our dogs can come over to their place and stay awhile. All of them have had their entire flocks wiped out over and over and over and they have "secure" coops and runs and never leave their chickens out. Of course, "secure" is really impossible when you are living in the forest - the predator will always find a way. That's why we have the dogs and the system works. Our neighbors also laugh and say our dogs are chasing the predators all to their place. Our closest neighbor is a couple of miles away and we're divided by all woods. We live on 18 acres of an original 6,000 acre plantation which is next to another 6,000 acre plantation. Descendants of the original owners still own all the land and some have homesteads on their parcels. Others simply have their cows on their land and live in town. The primary descendants own the hardware store and we see them every day. They are also here a lot since the family cemetery is on our land so they know our dogs well and really do ask if they can borrow them. They are amazed that our livestock and chickens are running around free.

 

[nop169]

I also believe you can co-exist with the native wildlife as long as no man made disruption on a massive scale interrupts the ecology. We have lived on 24 acres for 18 years. From the first year we have had poultry, goats, cattle & misc. other animals. Our property backs up to a 296 acre parcel of woods/meadows & river bottom land. Our closest neighbors are 800 ft away (in front & to the side of our house) at the state road.
We originally saw fox, coon, skunk, coyote, deer, turkey & quail on a regular basis come into our back pasture from these woods. Some of our poultry free range & the goats/sheep all are stalled at night. We also have kestral, red tail hawk, barred owl, screech owl & a pair of barn owls that make an appearance.
The only thing we ever lost to avain & mammal predators was an occaisonal muscovy duck & any white colored guineas that hatched. The normal pearl & lavender were not ever bothered by the avain predators. Even my DDs brown spotted white rabbits that ran in a 1/4 acre lot were never bothered. All of that changed when the owners of the 296 acres logged the whole property behind us. We then had a 2 year problem with coyotes killing everything they could find. We lost around 20 goats & sheep, 30 muscovies, 19 geese & 4 turkeys. The coyotes had been there since we moved in but only became an issue once the habitat was destroyed. The other factor was that the coyotes had also crossed with dogs. They came at all hours of the day & nite & the frustration was so high I contemplated getting rid of all the livestock as we were keeping everyone under lock & key 24 hours per day & once we let the sheep/goats out to graze during the day (10 oclock to 3 oclock) we would lose one. Instead we added an alpaca to the existing horses & donkeys & split the herds up in smaller groups with at least one protector (by the way - most horses will also attempt to kill strange dogs/coyotes that come into their territory - at least mine do!). This along with killing 5 of the coy/dog crosses has resolved the issue. Our neighbors also killed a few of the large crosses & had a trapper come in and trap. A total of 33 animals were killed or trapped over a 500 acre parcel that year (note that all studies indicate that when coyotes are hunted - they reproduce more kits & more survive to adulthood). All of the ones killing livestock were large sized crosses. Once that was accomplished, things returned to normal. It has been 3 years now & I have not lost any other livestock. The 296 acre parcel has recovered & the ecology has rebounded. I will admit that for the first time in my life I "HATED" coyotes during that time. Now, I again no longer do.
The other problem we see is with the dwindling number of deer, birds, rabbits, quail & turkey. I believe it is a combination of the coyotes & the wild hogs that were owner released on the 296 acres for hunting. The hogs played a large role in changing the environment also.
In our 18 years here we have seen cycles from drought to flooding & the coyotes were around at all times. The only time we ever had a major problem was after the large scale logging. I had issues from neighborhood dogs running loose more than from the wildlife. As far as the natural ecology - it was affected by both the hogs & logging & I feel that those combined factors led to our situation.
As far as the tractored poultry & the penned ducks (call) we have never had an issue even though our "tractors" are only potable dog kennels with a tarped "A" line roof. I am sure that part of this is because my 6 dogs are in & out of the house at all hours & the poultry yard is encompassed in their "territory". That, along with the warning calls of the guineas & peafowl when something enters the yards seems to work well for us. And we still see the occainsional coon, oppossum & skunk in the yards.
So, for me, I feel you can co-exist in most habitats that are natural with the cycle of nature in balance. Once that balance is disrupted by major scale change - especially man made change - I feel that you will have issues until a natural balance returns to the affected area. Also please note that although I hunt only seldom - I am not against hunting for food. I also try not to personify animals with human charecteristics & understand that they are only acting on their ingrained survival instincts. They are not guilty of killing for pleasure as man does but only for survival. There is no hatred or malice intended by them. And likewise I do not kill for fun but when necessary I will do what I must to protect my livestock. But I try to do so selectively & only kill the guilty party. Even when so angry & distressed & when "hating" the coyotes - I did not try to exterminate them - only hunted & killed the offenders. Once the offenders were gone & the environment stabilized- the other coyotes returned to their natural prey & left our livestock alone.
As for the last 2 years - we again have geese, muscovies & sheep & goats all free ranging on our pastures. The coyotes I have seen are back to their normal size & we still hear them "sing" several times per year. I have not - nor has my neighbors - lost any livestock to the coyotes tha last 2 years. One neighbor did lose her cat to one though!

 

[chickenma]

I believe in the circle of life. We all live and we all die. And we all need to eat to stay alive. All humans and all animals around us. That's why I have enough animals , if I lose one it's okay. The animals only kill because they are hungry . Nature has their own way of keeping everything in balance. And my family and I are thankful to be part of that. We all have the right to live, including the animals that share our planet.

 

[ruth]

Excellent post Nop169. You are right - once man upsets the balance of nature, everything changes. We are fortunate that we live in the "country" of Mississippi. Nothing but woods for miles and miles as it has been since the dawn of time. Actually, at one time, there were working plantations here but they are now all gone and the woods have reclaimed their territory. So the "predators" have plenty of prey without having to risk coming into people's yards. As I mentioned, they stick to the woods and as long as my chickens don't go too far into the predator's territory, they are safe. Only in the spring do we see the mama bobcats and foxes getting desperate enough to feed their young - that's the only time we spot them getting close to the edge of the woods or actually making a run for it into the cleared area to grab a chicken. While I don't like losing a chicken, I don't begrudge the mama feeding her young. Our chickens and ducks are multiplying by leaps and bounds and I'll actually have to start doing something about the excess ducks soon.

I wouldn't change a thing about living in the country. I love to walk in the woods or stroll the creek and catch a glimpse of real nature and all her creatures. I love seeing the mama broody hens running around the farm with their flock of baby chicks and teaching them what's what. As I mentioned, they do learn quickly. We have a now very large Orp roo who when first hatched, took up with a little blue Ameraucana. They were a cute little couple but every day he would take her far away, down the road that leads through the woods to the small lake. One day I saw him in the coop alone and knew something was wrong. I found a small pile of some of her blue feathers on their path they always took. To this day, over a year later, he has never left the coop area and will only step outside the coop to eat and goes back in. I've seen the same thing happen to others who were in a group in the woods when one got grabbed. They all return to the yard/protected area and never stray again. So, over time, there is a learning going on even amongst the animals as to how to coexist.

There's also a funny, in a sad/gross kind of way, that my dogs "think". On occasion, I've found a dead/decayed/half-eaten/rotted chicken lying in the coop or next to the door and I know the dogs found it while running the woods and brought it "home" and placed it in the coop. They really do a great job of protecting and even bring home any dead ones they find. Sweet in a sad kind of way.

 

[chicknmania]

No. We love wildlife, too. We have sixteen acres of woods and four acres of field and are surrounded by the same for miles, plus we have a seven acre wetland at the rear of our property that we share with our neighbors. We have hawks, owls, minks, weasels, skunks, raccoons, foxes, coyotes, possums, feral cats and dogs, and bobcats. Although we have lost a few to predators, the number we have lost to predators is surprisingly low. Please don't let that deter you from having both. Prevention is the answer; give your birds a well built shelter to go in at night or when they feel like they are in danger, and predator proof it. And your pen, if they are in one. Ours free range during the day, go in at night. We also have roosters, which help a lot. Our birds have learned how to watch for and run from danger, and they have become very good at it.

It is nice to know that so many others think the same. Being able to have and enjoy both has been more than worth it for us.