Colloncas, Huastecs, & Quechuas

[bardies]

Me too! and dryer as well! Normally I wouldn't care - and would relish the water for the pastures, but I have some breeder pens set up and have barely gotten to use them yet. Wet and cold together just doesn't go well with not totally enclosed pens!

 

[beausonge]

Hi so the ones Yashar sent me are not pure but composites ? He said the were pure from his breeding stock and that they had not been outcrossed I am no expert so I am confused .

I am not sure what I got... Out of 9 "Colloncas" that hatched, 4 have tails. I thought "Collonca" meant tailless (rumpless). I also thought rumplessness was a dominant trait so I am not understanding where these tails came from?

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Here are pictures of the rumpless ones from this same hatch. All the eggs had a big "C" on them, were the same color and size.

The large cockerel on the left is a Sweet Potato Quechua and the one on the right is an Aracuana/Leghorn cross cockerel. You can see the dark brown Collonca in between




This one is incredibly tiny - about 1/3 the size of the other south americans.




At this point, I am definitely not going to offer any hatching eggs because I really do not know what I have. I am going to breed the tailless ones together and see what they produce.

 

[Penny Hen]

I am not sure what I got... Out of 9 "Colloncas" that hatched, 4 have tails. I thought "Collonca" meant tailless (rumpless). I also thought rumplessness was a dominant trait so I am not understanding where these tails came from?

.



Here are pictures of the rumpless ones from this same hatch. All the eggs had a big "C" on them, were the same color and size.

The large cockerel on the left is a Sweet Potato Quechua and the one on the right is an Aracuana/Leghorn cross cockerel. You can see the dark brown Collonca in between




This one is incredibly tiny - about 1/3 the size of the other south americans.




At this point, I am definitely not going to offer any hatching eggs because I really do not know what I have. I am going to breed the tailless ones together and see what they produce.

This could be the result of a fence hopping rooster. It dose happen to the best occasionally. It could also be the result of how the South Americans describe their poultry. Resolution explains this in his thread. When they call a chicken a Collonca it is because of phenotype. It has no tail...therefore it is a Collonca. What we would call an Auracana they would call a Collonca de Areites. (tailess with earings) Tailed ones would be Quechua. There are Quechua de Areites, tailed with earings. They classify more by phenotype than by known bloodlines because so many are kept free range and have the possiblility of crossing with each other. It is difficult to find flocks down there that are kept pristinely separated from their close cousins. There will likely be a lot of unexpected genes popping up until enough generations have been hatched here to sort the types of Quechua out. It dose not mean that these are not Quechua. Indeed the Collanca is a tailess Quetchua. But so are Ameraucanas and Easter Eggers (Resolution calls these Improved North American Quechua) and the American Auracana and the British and Austrailian Auracana (which is tailed and crested bearded and muffed).

It does mean that we are untangling a knotted ball of yarn. We will have to separate the genes back out. It doesn't mean that we should cull in the traditional sense though. The gene pool is too rare. So some of the cousins have been kissing and you end up with some tailed Colloncas. Separate the tailed ones out and only breed them to themselves. If possible see if you can get DNA run on them and talk with Phil Sponnenburg about he results and how it should be applied to the conservation effort. Indeed if you can get a hold of Resolution he should be able to help you decide the best way to sort it out even without DNA. Ask Yashar I believe he knows Resolutions regular name.

Some genes exist in both dominate and recessive. I had a tailless Olive Egger of BCM/AM breeding. Both parents were tailed. That means that it was recessive in that bird and that BCM was carrying a copy! Or it means that the genes for taillessness are much more complex with incomplete dominates and it is combination of genes like a slot machine that determines taillessness. American Auracana have tailed and semi-tailed birds show up. And the British Auracanas have tailless ones show up time to time. It is definitely time to talk to experts.

But they are worth it!

 

[Grannychick55]

Where did you get your eggs from ? The birds Yashar sent me are tailless the coloring is very close. From reading everything I can find about these birds everything PennyHen said is correct Yashar could answer your questions he is very helpful with information on all of the SA breeds. I will get some pics of the ones I hatched and the ones Yashar sent the coloring is very close.

 

[beausonge]

Penny hen,

I am sure Resolution is Kermit Blackwood and I belong to his Facebook group. Kermit is obviously an ornithologist and very well educated. I am not. I got my first chicken three years ago so a lot of what he says on his page is "above my head". He did try to explain what you just explained but... again there was assumed knowledge that I don't have. What you say makes perfect sense to me and explains why I got such a wild variation out of the same eggs.

I plan on putting the red Collonca cockerel with the blue/red pullet; the duck wing Collonca cockerel with the dark brownish Collonca pullet. I am on the fence with the teeny tiny Collonca pullet. She is turning bluer and bluer. She is SO tiny that the others are huge next to her. I do have a small black bantam clean faced Araucana rumpless rooster I could put her with. It is not keeping the south americans "pure" but he is a gentle rooster and he would not hurt her. I had planned on keeping the tailed ones together. Kermit says the white blue one is a cockerel and I THINK the other ones are pullets.

I have a dog kennel/pedigree program that I use for my toy poodles. I am starting a "chicken" kennel. I will be able to add descriptions, facts, pictures, etc. in this program. It will also figure inbreeding co-efficients, and it can hold several hundred thousand individuals. It will be fun to start with these birds and look back in a few years to see how their progeny turn out.

Yashar did send me two SP Quechua eggs and they both hatched - a cockerel and a pullet. I am on my iPad right now and my pics are on my laptop. I will upload some tomorrow.

So, lots to think about!

 

[beausonge]

Grannychick,

My eggs did come from Yashar. He sent 12 Collonca eggs and 2 SP Quechua eggs. I dropped one Collonca egg and 9 out of the remaining 11 hatched. both Quechua eggs hatched.

 

[Penny Hen]

Penny hen,

I am sure Resolution is Kermit Blackwood and I belong to his Facebook group. Kermit is obviously an ornithologist and very well educated. I am not. I got my first chicken three years ago so a lot of what he says on his page is "above my head". He did try to explain what you just explained but... again there was assumed knowledge that I don't have. What you say makes perfect sense to me and explains why I got such a wild variation out of the same eggs.

I plan on putting the red Collonca cockerel with the blue/red pullet; the duck wing Collonca cockerel with the dark brownish Collonca pullet. I am on the fence with the teeny tiny Collonca pullet. She is turning bluer and bluer. She is SO tiny that the others are huge next to her. I do have a small black bantam clean faced Araucana rumpless rooster I could put her with. It is not keeping the south americans "pure" but he is a gentle rooster and he would not hurt her. I had planned on keeping the tailed ones together. Kermit says the white blue one is a cockerel and I THINK the other ones are pullets.

I have a dog kennel/pedigree program that I use for my toy poodles. I am starting a "chicken" kennel. I will be able to add descriptions, facts, pictures, etc. in this program. It will also figure inbreeding co-efficients, and it can hold several hundred thousand individuals. It will be fun to start with these birds and look back in a few years to see how their progeny turn out.

Yashar did send me two SP Quechua eggs and they both hatched - a cockerel and a pullet. I am on my iPad right now and my pics are on my laptop. I will upload some tomorrow.

So, lots to think about!

I think the bantam Araucana rooster would do well with little "Bambina". She is probably reflecting a lot of the Koro Sea jungle fowl that is in that blood line and that is giving her the tiny size.

 

[beausonge]

As promised, here are the pictures of the Quechua cockerel and pullet. I love the color of both of them. The cockerel's legs are the same color as his feathers.

 

[Grannychick55]

Penny hen,

I am sure Resolution is Kermit Blackwood and I belong to his Facebook group. Kermit is obviously an ornithologist and very well educated. I am not. I got my first chicken three years ago so a lot of what he says on his page is "above my head". He did try to explain what you just explained but... again there was assumed knowledge that I don't have. What you say makes perfect sense to me and explains why I got such a wild variation out of the same eggs.

I plan on putting the red Collonca cockerel with the blue/red pullet; the duck wing Collonca cockerel with the dark brownish Collonca pullet. I am on the fence with the teeny tiny Collonca pullet. She is turning bluer and bluer. She is SO tiny that the others are huge next to her. I do have a small black bantam clean faced Araucana rumpless rooster I could put her with. It is not keeping the south americans "pure" but he is a gentle rooster and he would not hurt her. I had planned on keeping the tailed ones together. Kermit says the white blue one is a cockerel and I THINK the other ones are pullets.

I have a dog kennel/pedigree program that I use for my toy poodles. I am starting a "chicken" kennel. I will be able to add descriptions, facts, pictures, etc. in this program. It will also figure inbreeding co-efficients, and it can hold several hundred thousand individuals. It will be fun to start with these birds and look back in a few years to see how their progeny turn out.

Yashar did send me two SP Quechua eggs and they both hatched - a cockerel and a pullet. I am on my iPad right now and my pics are on my laptop. I will upload some tomorrow.

So, lots to think about!

I know what you mean alot is so above my head and yes I think he is very knowledgeable about the genetics of the birds but if you ask him to use laymans terms he is very nice about it.

 

[Grannychick55]

I cannot get pics to download of the Colloncas Yashar sent I hatched 4 from eggs they are all rumpless