Color genetics thread.

[Bross63]

I understand on an elementary basis how things work when breeding pure breeds, but how does one gain an understanding of how to predict what might be the result of crossing hybrids such as genetic hackle chickens that are by default the result of multiple breeds and colorings combined to create a line for specific purposes (such as long, thin feathers in this example)? Also how does one predict the result of combining a standard size breed with a bantam, a pure breed with a hybrid such as the genetic hackle example above, etc? Thanks for all info and assistance!

 

[Wappoke]

I understand on an elementary basis how things work when breeding pure breeds, but how does one gain an understanding of how to predict what might be the result of crossing hybrids such as genetic hackle chickens that are by default the result of multiple breeds and colorings combined to create a line for specific purposes (such as long, thin feathers in this example)? Also how does one predict the result of combining a standard size breed with a bantam, a pure breed with a hybrid such as the genetic hackle example above, etc? Thanks for all info and assistance!

As far size, there are a number of different loci and alleles that control the size of a chicken. As a general rule, if you cross a standard size chicken with a smaller chicken the offspring will be somewhere in between the two sizes. Some chickens may only have one pair of genes controlling size while a bantam size has more than one pair of genes controlling size. Some genes are dominant and others recessive, some are sex-linked and others are autosomal. It is complicated. It would not be unusual to see a 40% reduction in size ( from larger parent) or even greater in the offspring. It all depends on what you are crossing.

read this https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1143809/5-month-old-pullet-looks-2-months-old

The traits of hackle are controlled by genes also. What the genes are- I can not say. Individuals that produce chickens for hackle feathers know and understand the genetics. Chickens have many different genes that control feather growth and some may be involved. In the world of genetics- to produce a hybrid that is better than both parents (with respect to a characteristic) is not unusual. I do not know if this is true with hackle or not.

 

[Bross63]

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the info and your time in sharing it. In the case of highly hybridized chickens like the "genetic hackle" chickens, because there is little way of knowing what exactly they are to start with would cross breeding them with a purebreed or even another hybrid be a complete "blind grab bag" as to how the offspring might turn out? It seems that starting with such a mix as one of the breeding pair would make things very unoredictsble. Or can one, through levels of breeding stabilize or isolate the genetics in such mixed birds so that the results of breeding them is more predictable? Thanks again!

 

[junebuggena]

Genetic hackle chickens are not really crossbred. They were originally, but then agian, just about every breed in existence started out as mixes. They just aren't a recognized breed, and are too varied to have a proper standard. The people that breed them do not just randomly cross breeds. They are the result of generations of careful selection and line breeding.
This thread may have the info you are looking for.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ka-fly-tying-chickens-info-for-the-interested

 

[Wappoke]

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the info and your time in sharing it. In the case of highly hybridized chickens like the "genetic hackle" chickens, because there is little way of knowing what exactly they are to start with would cross breeding them with a purebreed or even another hybrid be a complete "blind grab bag" as to how the offspring might turn out? It seems that starting with such a mix as one of the breeding pair would make things very unoredictsble. Or can one, through levels of breeding stabilize or isolate the genetics in such mixed birds so that the results of breeding them is more predictable? Thanks again!

If you could obtain one bird that produced good red ( i posted red as an example) hackles, then cross it with another bird (light brown leghorn). Then back cross the offspring to the bird with good red hackles. The hackle quality in the offspring ( first cross and the back cross) will tell you about the genes found in the original bird.

I would imagine the trait is controlled by more than two sets of genes and there are probably modifiers also involved in hackle expression.

 

[Bross63]

Ok. Thanks again. So that would essentially be a 12-18 month process by the time the first generation was able to breed and the time required for the backcross offspring to reveal its true qualities as it matured, I'm assuming. That's very interesting that one can do backward "genetic investigation" like that. In order to learn all the true genetic dominant, non-dominant, recessive, etc genes present in a given bird, is DNA testing required and is that helpful at speeding up the process of making selective changes to a given line of chickens?

 

[Wappoke]

Ok. Thanks again. So that would essentially be a 12-18 month process by the time the first generation was able to breed and the time required for the backcross offspring to reveal its true qualities as it matured, I'm assuming. That's very interesting that one can do backward "genetic investigation" like that. In order to learn all the true genetic dominant, non-dominant, recessive, etc genes present in a given bird, is DNA testing required and is that helpful at speeding up the process of making selective changes to a given line of chickens?

With chicken breeding, time and patience are your friends. The proof is in the offspring. DNA testing is not required.

 

[Bross63]

Yes, it certainly sounds like time is the biggest factor. It sounds like to truly understand the quality of each "new" bird you add to a flock (that you didn't produce yourself from your own known breeders) this cross>back cross process must be followed. Otherwise although a given indicivial may appear to be an ideal breeder, if he/she was just a lucky "good one" out of less than ideal parents then that individual's suitability as a breeder may be misinterpreted. Is that correct? And rather than wait all that time (12-18 months) while the roo or hen is getting older and risking illness, etc might it be acceptable to simply breed "best to best" and cull all that don't fit the breeding goal in order to refine the genetics through selection that way? Or will that never truly breed out the negative (for that given breeding goal) genes and assure reinforcement and "locking in" of the traits one may be pursuing? Thanks again for your sharing of knowledge about this fascinating subject.

 

[Violetsfeathers]

If a breed a buff brahma bantam hen to a blue Cochin rooster (with gold/red leakage) what will I get?

 

[junebuggena]

If a breed a buff brahma bantam hen to a blue Cochin rooster (with gold/red leakage) what will I get?

Pictures of the prospective parents?