Color genetics thread.

[jerryse]

Experts Needed






These are full siblings. Are these what is called Silver Wheaten?

These are the parents:
Dad:


and mom:

For silver wheaten think salmon Faverole without the red shoulders on the male .

 

[jerryse]

Experts Needed






These are full siblings. Are these what is called Silver Wheaten?

These are the parents:
Dad:


and mom:

Think salmon Faverole minus red shoulders on the male for silver wheaten . So no not exactly .

 

[fadedracer]

Do you want your cocks to be the same color as your hens? Breed a Golden Campine cock to a Silver penciled Rock Hen, or a Silver penciled Wyandotte hen. All Cocks will be Silver and will be silver laced like the hens, because the Campines carry Hf ( henny feathered ) which is dominate over non-henny feather. All hens will be gold colored because you are using a sex-linked mating. The cocks to me are beautiful with there henny feathered silver pencilling. Or you can get yourself a white egg layer( like a leghorn) mate her to a Araucana/Ameraucanas cock, all of the hens from this mating will lay blue eggs because the blue egg from the araucana or ameraucanas is dominate and will pigment all the offsprings eggs. Just Remember to use a cock hatched out of a blue egg. Not a kaki egg. The reason being, kaki eggs are produced because they carry the blue gene on top of a brown egg layer. Brown egg + blue egg = kaki colored egg. white egg + blue egg = blue egg. Blue is dominate. To sum up any gold cock mated to a silver hen always gives you a sex linked mating. All hens will be color of the male ( Gold ) ( Recessive color) all cocks ( males ) will be the color of the hen ( Silver ) ( Dominate color ), Hf ( Henny feather is Dominate to non-henny feather ), And blue egg is dominate to any egg color (White =blue egg) (Brown = Kaki egg ) Another thing to remember if you use a pure barred male chicken ( homozygous pure for barring ) Lighter colored barring than a female barred hen ( heterozygous barred ). and Mate him to a barred hen all chicks can be sexed as day olds even by a little child. How? All chicks with big white heads are cocks and all chicks that a solid black or have very little white on the head are hens. Hope this helps you with your beginning Genetic lesson, with these instructions you can have lots of fun, and produce lots of pretty chickens and eggs.

 

[Wishapup]

Does anyone know what genetics are responsible for this wing feather pattern? I've never seen it before in any pictures online. The feather is half black in a horizontal wavy pattern and half another colour.



The older relative of the rooster in the above picture has the exact same pattern, but black and white instead of black and orange. Not a good photo but it's visible.





The colour combination looks a bit Mille Fleur-like (but those genetics are not in these roosters' backgrounds, and it's not the same). Original cross, in the second photo, was a white Silkie and what I think was a cuckoo or barred Old English Game Bantam hen.

 

[adni02]

something between creal and tolbunt i think but beautiful

 

[Wishapup]

something between creal and tolbunt i think but beautiful

Thank you! I'm not sure how I got such colourful birds. Wonder what that white Silkie was carrying...but after 8-10 years we still have the crosses.
Last generation:

 

[CanuckBock]

Does anyone know what genetics are responsible for this wing feather pattern? I've never seen it before in any pictures online. The feather is half black in a horizontal wavy pattern and half another colour.



The older relative of the rooster in the above picture has the exact same pattern, but black and white instead of black and orange. Not a good photo but it's visible.

I have seen photos exactly like this and it was from a virus infection that caused a mutation in the pigment cells which resulted in the cells not being able to manufacture melanins. The birds become more and more white and some become completely white over time...NO pigment = white. Not saying this is what is in play but I have seen examples of this condition before.

More likely, this is the work of the Columbian pattern. The Columbian pattern as we see it in the Buff and Light variety of say, the breed Brahma, is simple in a genetic colour pattern sense; add the mutations Silver and Columbian to e-series base eb or eWh. The breeder's art comes in the selection process. Perfection in the Columbian pattern comes after 100's of years of selection for precise crisp markings in specific areas on the feathers. Columbian basically pushes black pigments to the extremeties of the bird (think in terms of a painter's palette...blot a blob of black paint in the middle and moosh or spin it outwards--ends up in the wings, tail regions of the bird)...the breeder's art is in making the most of the pushing process to the exacting places you deem wanted on the feathers. No real rhyme or reason, just we humans have chosen certain places for certain colour patterns in which some of the birds may not quite agree with giving us.

The bird above is a "mess" if'n it was suppose to be marked as per the Columbian pattern SOP worded descriptions.

The white no pigments may also be due to a single dose of recessive white. I would like to see the tail feathers also on this specimen...to see if leaky white is present in any amounts also. Sometimes you also see white at the base of the tail too.

MDF Booted Bantam hen with a single dose of recessive white seen in her wing primaries ​

Columbian is part of the trio of mutations that make up the laced varieties...Co/Ml /Pg.


Yes, this bird below IS pretty in a haphazard way; replicatable in any certain shape, form, hue or fashion, not so easily done!

Blue dilution one dose, barred/cuckoo (female so B/-), assorted Partridge pattern genetics​

This female bird above is a combination of single dose of blue dilution, Barred/Cuckoo, lots of rich black pigment (eumelanin can often hint at the amounts present for distribution when you SEE a very dark rich iris RED colouration) and the Partridge pattern. I could have sold a million of her...the star burst white pattern near the tip of the darker laced feathers is very pretty. The likelihood of making more of the same is debateable. When one cannot replicate a colour pattern with any accuracy; one verges into the colour realms were they are certainly eye candy and often seen when we are in the midst of a project towards making identifiable and replicatable varieties. These birds are the "rainbows of colour patterns" I knew would happen by crossing colour varieties (remember, pretty much any colour and pattern may hide UNDER self-whites or self-blacks)...the art and challenge is to work your way BACK to recognizable varieties in the colour patterns if you breed birds to the SOP descriptions. If'n you just want some lovely fancy wancy colour patterns for the yard birds...have at it and don't worry you may never again create STAR bursts in feather tips.

Above are basically a Silver based clan of chooks...
​

White (S/- in the s-series; one dose as all are females), black, far left one dose blue dilution with barred/cuckoo...these females are all variances on the laced genetics in impure forms. See the ghost lace in the center female's chest? Diamonds in the hackles but the female again on the far left, her diamonds in her hackle are broken up by the presence of one dose of barred/cuckoo which interrupts the colour being manufactured and expressed. One could ponder her hackle ticking to be a combination of Db and Pg--like a Campine BUT I was fortunate to breed the White Wyandottes for five years prior to know that Db was not likely present in the line that produced this female. Barring/Cuckoo could mimic Db/Pg if it was only expressed in the bottom area of the hackle feathers (as in autosomal barring).

.

This group above is more based on red and gold (phaeomelanins) with females again, so HAS to be s"+"/-. ​

The two on the far left were used to make self-Buffs (obvious the red pigments are diluted or they lack as many recessive blacks) AND the two on the right were used to make Partridges (much darker red ground colour base).

The colour combination looks a bit Mille Fleur-like (but those genetics are not in these roosters' backgrounds, and it's not the same). Original cross, in the second photo, was a white Silkie and what I think was a cuckoo or barred Old English Game Bantam hen.

Self-White may hide pretty much ANY colour genetics. Cuckoo/Barred is simple enough...barring and Silver but may be expressed upon any e-series--Wheaten might have a bit of red leakage as eWh is not the best for making a completely Black chicken (red/gold often leaks in the hackle) to add the pigment stopper/interrupter Barred/Cuckoo to.

You have any chick day old photos to examine chick down expression? Knowing what e-series bases you have in play would be helpful...the e-series "flavours" the chicken soups we make up as breeders and knowing what FLAVOUR base it is sure helps one guess the mutations on wild type in play. Otherwise, it is difficult doing any guesses real justice without that insider's peak as to their e-series.

For people that want colour genetics guessed at...what gender the bird is, day old photo and then adult plumage of the bird in question...are really very helpful in guessing the colour genetics in play.

Boy birds have the BIG wallet and may carry two doses of gender linked alleles, girl birds have the SMALL purses and get one dose of the gender linked allele.

something between creal and tolbunt i think but beautiful

Crele is super simple in genetic terms. One mutation from wild type, with barred/cuckoo (keep in mind, barred is slow feather growth = crisp, cuckoo is fast feather growth = fuzzy...why we see so many egg breeds with cuckoo feather patterns...get dem feathers ON and get laying, eh?).

Tollbunt is merely a messy MDF visually (Tol is based on ER and lacks Db and some have Mh if'n the ground is a rich deep red)...Tollbunt is simply Golden Laced with mottling and found in the Polish breed. I was gonna toy around with the variety if my Golden Laced bantam Chantecler hen had gotten along with a White Booted roo but it never came to pass...maybe one day sooner than later; got a ton of Golden Laced bantam Wy pullets right now...so could let a Booted head a pen I suppose. Pretty pattern indeed.

Thank you! I'm not sure how I got such colourful birds. Wonder what that white Silkie was carrying...but after 8-10 years we still have the crosses.
Last generation:

For the white no pigment, I would eliminate dom white (Pyle/Pile pattern) as a culprit because I would expect to see way more white on the bird and dom white is pretty complete about nixing all black pigments (dom white is harshest on black but lets red leak). I would not say blue dilution in the sense I do see some dark blacks...but have been fooled by some chickens with one dose blue dilution as I have had some Laced birds just a shade, tad lighter than Silver Laced versions where they DID posses blue dilution. Funny how very dark the grey can be!

You certainly may include Barred/Cuckoo (see the v shaped coloured markings followed by no pigment white, that's your clue on the B/C being in the mix interrupting the colour pigments). The red on the wing bow...can be impure Silver/gold expression (pointy feathers = saddle not cushion...so makes your bird above a male & males may posses TWO doses in s-series) OR more likely autosomal red making itself known (also in the hackle and male's saddles but less brilliant than red shown in wing bows).

​

I simply refer to these colour patterns as my "cuckoo lil' men"...not sure who is more loco...them or me for letting them happen in the first place!

​

Oh the shame of being a colour breeder...

​

Amounts of the red pigments (phaeomelanin) varies within specimens...substantially...

​

This is a Cuckoo Partridge male...Surfer Boy...

Yeh, he's cute and colourful...and no known variety known to mankind...

​

So now I DARE you go a draw up a Standard for this pattern above...tell me what Surfer Boy and all his progeny, plus his full siblings have to be...

State EXACTLY where all these colours and patterns must be on the males and the females...what, not up to the challenge eh? Why ever not???

Each one is an individual, pretty and cute, dat's fur sure, but NOT replicateable like peas on a pod...hardly!

This explains why we don't see colour patterns very common like Cuckoo Partridge as normal fare for a variety in the Standards. There are some daring breeds that do and that's

but having pretty much anything goes, well that is not too much like having a recognized variety in the breed now is it...unless you are an Old English Game fan. Hee hee...pretty much ANY colour pattern (variety) flies, so more focus may be spent on breed SHAPE by the OEG breeders!

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[redrooster99]

Does anyone know what genetics are responsible for this wing feather pattern? I've never seen it before in any pictures online. The feather is half black in a horizontal wavy pattern and half another colour. The older relative of the rooster in the above picture has the exact same pattern, but black and white instead of black and orange. Not a good photo but it's visible. The colour combination looks a bit Mille Fleur-like (but those genetics are not in these roosters' backgrounds, and it's not the same). Original cross, in the second photo, was a white Silkie and what I think was a cuckoo or barred Old English Game Bantam hen.

How could I get this color from these pullets?

[/IMG]

The white you see is a roo. Is there anyway you could tell me by breeds though.

 

[CanuckBock]

How could I get this color from these pullets?

[/URL]

The white you see is a roo.

To make the white tipped dotty dots, you'll want double dose of mottling (not really seeing that in the White roo...do you have white tips on adult feathers being expressed in any?) as mottling is a simple autosomal recessive.

You'll want barring/cuckoo and I don't see that in either of the three birds you have pictured (I'm old, blind without may spectacles; silliness prevails really but maybe there is barring and I jest can't see it!).

There could be Columbian in the birds...I see dark diamond like markings in hackles, dark markings in tails, maybe wing edges, too...so one of the items is probably there.

You'd have greater success crossing a MDF (one of the varieties based on eb, which usually has Co) with a Barred/Cuckoo (both desirable pretty patterns in their own rights!) and select females that are Silver (white) over the gold ones (might help explain the ample white ground colour in the desired example as the outcome wanted). Would be faster using varieties with some more of the key ingredients but hey, every journey, no matter how long, starts with the first step...right? Use what you got available and you can avoid importing in some disorder not in your flock...more biosecure, huh!

By the by, Easter Eggers or Ameraucana/Araucana's scare moi...the main criterion for many in the recent historical past of these breeds was the laying of blue eggs (some as in EE is green as well as the blue eggs). Every shape, colour and form was OK and quite right as the goal was coloured egg shell production, right. Some backgrounds on these birds are very fluid and not going to get as predictable outcomes from them as say from Barred Plymouth Rocks perhaps. Great breeds, great coloured eggs...very nifty indeed! Just might not know the colour genetics you have in a strain until you have messed around inbreed to your fifth generation or so to get a real feel for the wonderful genes in the line.

Some other eyes might be nice that can see some more of the mutations I mighta missed in the original desired outcome.

If any of the colour genetic alleles are expressed in an impure form...that in itself guarantees you may never have a colour pattern that easily replicates unless you keep the P1's and cross them always for the F1's desired...sorta like F1 blue dilution (kids) are 100% outcome for progeny from Black x Splash P1's (parents).

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[redrooster99]

To make the white tipped dotty dots, you'll want double dose of mottling (not really seeing that in the White roo...do you have white tips on adult feathers being expressed in any?) as mottling is a simple autosomal recessive. 

You'll want barring/cuckoo and I don't see that in either of the three birds you have pictured (I'm old, blind without may spectacles; silliness prevails really but maybe there is barring and I jest can't see it!). 

There could be Columbian in the birds...I see dark diamond like markings in hackles, dark markings in tails, maybe wing edges, too...so one of the items is probably there.

You'd have greater success crossing a MDF (one of the varieties based on eb, which usually has Co) with a Barred/Cuckoo (both desirable pretty patterns in their own rights!) and select females that are Silver (white) over the gold ones (might help explain the ample white ground colour in the desired example as the outcome wanted).  Would be faster using varieties with some more of the key ingredients but hey, every journey, no matter how long, starts with the first step...right?  Use what you got available and you can avoid importing in some disorder not in your flock...more biosecure, huh! 

By the by, Easter Eggers or Ameraucana/Araucana's scare moi...the main criterion for many in the recent historical past of these breeds was the laying of blue eggs (some as in EE is green as well as the blue eggs).  Every shape, colour and form was OK and quite right as the goal was coloured egg shell production, right.  Some backgrounds on these birds are very fluid and not going to get as predictable outcomes from them as say from Barred Plymouth Rocks perhaps.  Great breeds, great coloured eggs...very nifty indeed!  Just might not know the colour genetics you have in a strain until you have messed around inbreed to your fifth generation or so to get a real feel for the wonderful genes in the line. 

Some other eyes might be nice that can see some more of the mutations I mighta missed in the original desired outcome. 

If any of the colour genetic alleles are expressed in an impure form...that in itself guarantees you may never have a colour pattern that easily replicates unless you keep the P1's and cross them always for the F1's desired...sorta like F1 blue dilution (kids) are 100% outcome for progeny from Black x Splash P1's (parents).  

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

I have one gold girl that has some spots.

What kinda rooster should I breed her with? Barred rock, or mottled java. All the younger girls appear to have columbian.