Color genetics thread.

[aurissavannahs]

Sorry I did not answer this question, I would quess the Production blacks would cover most if not all of the Gold color the Norwegions carry. But they would be sex-linked as day olds, so you would not have to raise up the roosters. Just dispatch them or sell them. Sorry again for the delay, I am still figuring the web site out.., buttons and all.

Norwegian Jaerhon hens weigh 1.7 kg which equals 3.5 lbs so they are smaller then Leghorns. If you see them together the Jaerhons are obviously smaller than Leghorns. The Jaerhorns' eggs are medium to large which is smaller than Leghorn, but due to their smaller size they are quite feed efficient. They lay almost as many eggs as Leghorns in a smaller package.

Crossing Production Blacks with Norwegian Jaerhons would make very nice layers but they would not be sex-linked or autosexing. Production Blacks are hybrids and the roos are heterozygous for the sex-linked barred gene. The Production black rooster would be B/b and the Jaerhon hen would be B/-. The resulting offspring would be roos B/B, large white head spot and B/b, small white head spot.The hens would be B/-, small white head spot, and b/-, no head spot. So 50% of the chicks would have small white spots on the head and could not be sexed at hatch. However, with the big combs on the Leghorns and Jaerhons you should be able to sex them by a month or so old. They are also not sex-linked through the gold/silver sex-linked gene as the roo has to be gold and the hen silver for that to work.

 

[Tammylr]

Genetics wise, you have a black chicken EE and mix it with a red chicken RR. I'm not sore how to do the square or when I do it I don't know what the results mean. Two dominant are crazy.

 

[CanuckBock]

Jan 12 2015 - 'BD'​

The Blue Dude - BD...he also has single dose of recessive white (C"+"/c)...lookit the primary wing thar...that peaky white showing. Now do keep in mind, not all strains that possess ONE dose rec white will express leaky white in wings (and tails, etc.)...many times C"+"/c does what it should do if it truly were a recessive and dominant relation completely. I just happen to have a line of Booted Bantams AND Wys that have recessive white floating in the mix...but thankfully NO dominant white (I) to mess with my guesses.

Jan 12 2015​

Not your issue probably, but these males are barred/cuckoo too...the male (Dark Dude) on left is one dose and male BD on right is two doses...how do I know...

Jan 12 2015​

Lookit the width of the colour pigment "barred/cuckoo" section (most obvious in tail feathers) compared to the no pigment (white) section...twice as much pigment interruption (white) since the males will posses two doses of gender linked alleles!


Here's another two bantam Wy males possessing cuckoo/barring...

Left male is double dose (B/B), right male is single dose (B/b"+")​

Now on your chick pondering...my first knee jerk reaction is to go SPLASH but simply not possible if sire possess NO blue dilution! The very lightness of the blue cast...but factoring in rec white, I have photos of a chick like this from this year's hatch that I can present as an example that may or may not help you predicting the adult feather colour patterns. So here goes...

Our whole current strain in bantam Wyandottes originated from one line of Whites x two lines of Silver Laced; classic attempt to discover what was under the White by breeding to Coloured birds.

2008 - looks like pillow fight in there; they were moulting!

I am thinking pretty certain I only see eb Brown for e-series base in my line, but with White...

This Cocka-Doodle-Dude could be almost ANYthing under the rec white...

​

White may be any e-series, so keeps one on yer toes always watching to prove what might be there...no matter. Black can be any e-series too...less likely eWh Wheaten though, does not make a very nice self-black as red pigments can leak in hackles, etc. So having a breed based on Black means open wide for lots of variation on e-series in a strain...and the simple fact that the very BEST exhibition Whites are often a Black bird under that White (red often leaks to mess up an otherwise nice White)...yeh, any e-series could be in play, eh!


Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefeather

What adult color do you think this standard Langshan chick will be? I have never seen this exact variation of chick down in my birds before. The color is more even, but much lighter and more mute than the recessive white chicks I have hatched previously. The color is also much lighter than the blue chicks I have hatched in the past.



The male was a recessive white E/E S/S bl+/bl+ c/c

The female was one of three hens

1. Recessive White Hen E/E S/- bl+/bl+ c/c
2. Blue Hen E/E S? Bl/bl+ C+/?
3. Black Hen E/E S? bl+/bl+ C+/c

Is it a really light colored blue or a recessive white?
Is there any significance to the gold color on and under the wing?

If the chick was E/E S Bl/bl+ c/c would there be any interaction between the two dilluters? I assume an adult of this phenotype would look like a typical white?


Below is what I am use to seeing with recessive white chicks compared to typical black chick



And in the picture below is a typical blue in the middle of more black chicks



Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

OK...just an observation since I am a tad more hung up over shank/toe colourations having dealt with two varieties in the Booted Bantams (White and MDF) requiring a light and a dark leg/foot...any chance you have mottling OR barring/cuckoo in your mix as both these no pigment interrupters will also affect leg colours by making them lighter. I see Langshans are required a more difficult shank toe colour combination; dark with pinkish (I am told once you get the combo, not so bad to maintain...but can be elusive if you don't have it). Your typical black chick has dark legs but the white and this blue dilution one may not(??), or do they develop it later as they get older...I have a male with one light foot and the other is both light and dark...the dark got darker as he got older. Please forgive me, as I don't own any breeds with this Langshan multi coloured leg trait pattern to any know better--pretty kewl! I do know I have rec white (c/c) Booteds with dark pigment and that they all lay a brown egg and some possess very dark eyes (both indicators as to how much eumelanin is often in the mix).

White Booted Bantam females, all with dark skin...black pigments right into body tissues, organs & their very bones!​

Langshans have a dark leg (with other requirements), so unlike my Wyandottes that require a yellow leg...much more freedom on what e-series is gonna work well for the breed.


In regards to guessing whether a Black female is Silver or gold in the s-series...I thought one could be assisted by the colour of the sheen (surface bubbles refracting light) on the Black feathers (unless this breed is a flat or dull black variety?). I forget but beetle green sheen was one allele, and a purple (or was it blue or brownish) sheen quite another...sorry--having an old person's moment.

I think Sigrid's chicken colour book comes with some corrections to the edition and right at this moment, I forget if it was the green sheen that was Silver or gold indicator...someone else here know? I think autosomal red also has something to do with the sheen colour in the Black feathered ones too...should really stop one day and go dig that out for sure. So many fun things about colour genetics, so little time to play in ALL the sandboxes...eh?

Here's my own sorta version of the chick you are asking about. Mine is darker (why I pondered could yours be Splash??) but no matter...thar is the yeller in the down you question in this one, so you did ask for "any help" and dat's what I attempting to do, try!

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Bantam Wyandottes, day olds - July 23, 2014 ​

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For a really white White, I like to see NO red pigments of any kind or sort. I even like to see a sorta blue cast for a very vivid White in adult plumage.

Jul 31 2014 Booted Bantam day olds​

The Booted White chick in the far right corner will be a vivid white...the one above has a yeller cast to it, not as white a White (think in terms of the bluing that some put in the final rinse when washing white clothes...the blue cast = ultra gleamy WHITES!).

Sep 17 2014 - Day olds​

Bottom left white container...the White but with dark cast to it Bantam Chantecler chick on the top will be a whiter chick than the others in that container. Top center blue container, two Standard Chantecler chicks on right side have red/yellow cast, will not make as good exhibition Whites. Booted chicks on bottom right white container, best White will be the one near the top...there is an ever so slight dark cast (blue, black, whatever) so to the human eye, as an adult, that one will be the best of the Whites there. Optical illusion of sorts I suppose.


Next day...those two bantam Wy chicks...

July 24, 2014 - crappy pics if colour is to be judged properly...sigh!


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Sorry on the exposure on the two photos above...this is with a flash AND there is the glow of red heat lamp to freak the actual proper colour out. If I had known I would be hauling these pics out to assist someone else, mighta simply taken the birds outside...but t'was a busy time of year, July, so much going on...so many fuzz butts to oogle...lame excuse but that's all I got.

July 24 2014 ​

On the far bottom left in amongst the feather legged bantams (Brahmas & Booteds)...the two chicks in question...you can see the yellow glow on the bluish chick better, not a good close up, but more real on the colour presented.

July 24 2014 ​

Here is another shot of the blue male...the clean legged darker Wy chick is...he's up on the far right.

I have these two boys who are (counting on fingers, 1...2...3...) now just about six months old...but no recent pics that I recall. So later today when it gets light, I'll plop them two outside (burr!) on a rail and click a few pics for you. Laugh that I took pics yesterday of DD and BD...ha ha ha...but none of these two other boys...oh well. They do possess barring/cuckoo and I have tortured you already at the beginning of this post by showing you what barred in one and two doses in conjunction with blue dilution and single dose of rec white mighten l00k like. See, there is a method to my madness...well sorta?

I've shown you some of mine since you have shown me some of yours.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

Edit - Stoopid missed typing a l and l"+"--need seeing eye dawg..."Oh Fixins!"

 

[redrooster99]

This is what I mean by production black, not

You guys may have knew I meant this just figured I would show u so you guys would know.

 

[redrooster99]

Those pics are from www.idealpoultry.com

 

[fadedracer]

When I said production blacks, they are the ones that redrooster99 put a picture of ( top picture ), And yes they would be sex-linked because I was assuming Redrooster99 would use a homozygous Barred cock ( Production Black) ( more whitish than hens ) and a production Jaerhons hen. Not a show hen, Show hens typically weigh more than production birds, and lay fewer eggs. As far as the color " gold series "( possibly sex-linked gold ), gold may or may not show it in the offspring, I felt it was immaterial in the breeding program Redrooster99 was undertaking. I myself have barred buff birds for meat production only. They are massive birds bred for speed of growth and foraging much of their own food. Thank You for pointing out my assumptions, because I have no intent in misleading anyone trying to breed their perfect chicken. I hope this helps to clear up what I was trying to say as simply as possible, so anyone reading this could follow what redrooster99 was undertaking. All weights used were provided by ideal hatchery, egg weights and hen weights. Thanks again for keeping me on my toes. Hope this helps.

 

[CanuckBock]

I myself have barred buff birds for meat production only. They are massive birds bred for speed of growth and foraging much of their own food.

Barred buff...do you mean "Brockbars?" Barred in red pigment instead of black pigment?

Like these?

Young cockerel - Nov 2011​

Same male - Mar 2012​

Same male compared to standard sized Red Chantecler male - Dec 2012​

Blond boys; Left 2 doses barring/cuckoo - Right Male 1 dose barring/cuckoo; Dec 2012​

I laughed because "someone" called this colour pattern something like Lemon Cuckoo er something or other and then demanded huge money for the NEW colour at auction...hee hee...yeh. I got me females in this variety too...coloured up pretty much jest like the males with one dose of Barring/Cuckoo PLUS ours have way better temperature tolerances.

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada

 

[fadedracer]

Yes, I called them buff barred so everyone could visualize them easier. I have never heard of the term brock bar. Is that a genetic term or are they a breed? I noticed your bird appears to have a black tick in tail, is that splash ( Blue )? Does he have a rose comb or a walnut comb? The smaller one appears rose comb and the larger walnut comb. Thanks for any information on this.

 

[aurissavannahs]

So the Production Blacks you are talking about are basically barred leghorns that are bred for egg production and not show. I thought they were a sex-link hybrid. They would produce auto-sexing chicks with Norwegian Jaerhons. What hatchery do they come from? If they are as nice as their picture I might like some.

I am not sure why Ideal says their Jaerhons are 4.5 lbs as I have 10 hens from them and they are all closer to the 3.5 lbs that is in the Norwegian standard. It is funny how things like that happen. I have crossed a Jaerhon roo with some California White hens and produced white, blue barred and black barred hens. The hens are fabulous layers. They are smaller than the CW and larger than the NJ. Their rate of lay is excellent and the eggs are extra large. I kept the barred hens and will cross them with a NJ roo this spring.These should be auto-sexing. I also kept a roo that looks like a NJ roo without any yellow and will cross him with some NJ hens. These may or may not be auto-sexing depending on whither the roo is homozygous or heterozygous for the barred gene. The 50% crosses have little to no gold leakage. I expect some gold to be in the 75% NJ chicks. I also have 3 NJ hens than are not the standard color. They look like NJ with either cream or silver necks. They are from a father daughter mating. They are currently in with the CW/NJ roo. I am going to hatch eggs from them to see if any of the gold shows up.

 

[redrooster99]

The production black are from ideal poultry and your discription is about right. The ones you are thinking about are black sex-links.