Color genetics thread.

[junebuggena]

The barring is actually white stripes, and it will express, regardless of other pattern genes present. It's a modifier gene, that operates independently of base color and pattern genes.

The three birds to the left are all barred. The two pullets are a silver color with partridge pattern, and barring. The cockerel is gold color with a columbian restrictor (black pattern only shows on his neck, primary feathers and tail) and barring.

 

[Kev]

I'm definitely not aiming for pure Ameraucana anything. I don't have any matching pairs in my Easter Egger/ Olive Egger group. All the parents are pure (Wheaten Ameraucana, CCL, Welsummer, BCM, and Black (split to lav) Ameraucana) but the offspring are not intended to be pure looking. I didn't realize black was dominant over wheaten until now. Thanks to both of you for the info on leakage. I couldn't remember how it would work out.
So the leakage is where the center of the feather is sort of a different color? Or does it present like splash?

Typically they feather out black but the cockerels quickly start to show either white or brown/red on the wing bow area, saddles, and hackles, and if pullets leak, they either look like black sex links.... which is essentially the same concept- RIR over a black chicken(barred rocks are solid black chickens with barring "added") or they may have color only on the necks.

Part of the reason for such a variety is because there are two main kinds of black... one is Extended black, which is the most dominant and the second is Birchen. By themselves with no other modifier/helper genes, extended black usually has much less color- this is the common one where the hens can appear to be solid black yet are genetically leaky. Birchens usually show a lot more color and if a black cross shows a lot of color it is not a bad guess to assume the black parent probably had Birchen. But it;s far from fool proof because there is a lot of overlap also due to there being so many extra genes that help with making the chickens solid black. BTW there is not a single gene that makes for a totally black chicken all by itself. That's part of the reason the color crosses end up leaking- those helper genes are likely to be absent in the 'other color' parent.. so the offspring are lacking or not pure for all those helper genes.

Good examples of "leaky blacks" would be black copper marans(these are either exteneded black or birchen without the extra genes to turn them solid black), black sex links(same concept as your colored(wheaten) crossed with a black).

 

[tao chick]

Typically they feather out black but the cockerels quickly start to show either white or brown/red on the wing bow area, saddles, and hackles, and if pullets leak, they either look like black sex links.... which is essentially the same concept- RIR over a black chicken(barred rocks are solid black chickens with barring "added") or they may have color only on the necks.

Part of the reason for such a variety is because there are two main kinds of black... one is Extended black, which is the most dominant and the second is Birchen. By themselves with no other modifier/helper genes, extended black usually has much less color- this is the common one where the hens can appear to be solid black yet are genetically leaky. Birchens usually show a lot more color and if a black cross shows a lot of color it is not a bad guess to assume the black parent probably had Birchen. But it;s far from fool proof because there is a lot of overlap also due to there being so many extra genes that help with making the chickens solid black. BTW there is not a single gene that makes for a totally black chicken all by itself. That's part of the reason the color crosses end up leaking- those helper genes are likely to be absent in the 'other color' parent.. so the offspring are lacking or not pure for all those helper genes.

Good examples of "leaky blacks" would be black copper marans(these are either exteneded black or birchen without the extra genes to turn them solid black), black sex links(same concept as your colored(wheaten) crossed with a black).

Great information!
My pure hens each have "flaws" so to speak. I don't expect anything to be completely predictable in their offspring, but this basic knowledge will get me closer to understanding it all.

I had a Cream Brabanter rooster over a BCM hen produce the coolest looking pullet. The BCM had carnation comb making her flawed. Combined with the Brab V comb the pullet ended up with a great looking comb, crest, and beard. I'll get pictures today.

Edited to add that the cross above was from when I had all my birds together for winter- I wasn't trying for any projects or specific outcomes.

 

[tao chick]

Cream Brabanter rooster over Black Copper Marans hen that has carnation comb/ side sprigs.

 

[junebuggena]

Cream Brabanter rooster over Black Copper Marans hen that has carnation comb/ side sprigs.

That is a single comb combined with the Brabanter Y-comb. She got a copy of each. The Carnation comb is genetically a single comb. That Y comb gene does really odd things when crossed with other comb types.

 

[Kev]

Cream Brabanter rooster over Black Copper Marans hen that has carnation comb/ side sprigs.

Thanks for posting pic of this cross, isn't it so interesting to see genetics in play?

junebugga says Y comb but in genetics lingo it's called Duplex. Basically it divides/doubles the comb, combine that with crest which likes to push forward/seems to reduce comb size(and it is true crest does weird things to combs in general- most obvious in crosses/mixes) resulting in weird things like horns, leaf combs(crevecoeurs) etc. I had a single comb rooster with duplex and no crest, he had perfect twin row of single combs.

Carnation is a different gene, I don't know anything about the genetics of that..

 

[AmandaMBG]

The barring is actually white stripes, and it will express, regardless of other pattern genes present. It's a modifier gene, that operates independently of base color and pattern genes.

The three birds to the left are all barred. The two pullets are a silver color with partridge pattern, and barring. The cockerel is gold color with a columbian restrictor (black pattern only shows on his neck, primary feathers and tail) and barring.

Thanks and sorry for continuing with the questions but specifically if I put a non black and non dominant white cock over a cuckoo marans hen would all the f1 chicks be black barred and black because she has two copies of black? Or is it possible for the color of the cock to show through on the f1 birds?

 

[chickencraz]

Do you know what a White EE hen with a black sumatra would look like. Or with a golden phoenix?

 

[junebuggena]

Thanks and sorry for continuing with the questions but specifically if I put a non black and non dominant white cock over a cuckoo marans hen would all the f1 chicks be black barred and black because she has two copies of black? Or is it possible for the color of the cock to show through on the f1 birds?

Not possible to get different patterns/base colors in the first generation. There may some 'leakage', but it will be minimal. The birds I posted were all fathered by a black sexlink Easter Egger. He has the barring gene and solid black of his Barred Rock mother, but he also is carrying the genes of his Easter Egger father. I find that for variety of colors and patterns, you can't beat what a black sexlink rooster will produce.

This is the rooster that I used to breed my black sexlinks.

This is my current black sexlink rooster, Junior.


The two photos above all show birds that were fathered by Junior, just to give you an idea of how much variation you can get after that first generation.

 

[junebuggena]

Do you know what a White EE hen with a black sumatra would look like. Or with a golden phoenix?

Really depends on if she's recessive or dominant white. If recessive white, than she should produce black chicks, regardless of the rooster. If she's dominant white, she should produce white chicks. The only way to find out is to breed her and see what hatches.