Color question...

[Yoda]

HI, In order to get a Bronze chick, both parents need to carry a bronze gene The male father look like a two year old blackshoulder with a big white throat patch , means split to white also . If the mother hen really is a bronze silver pied, then the father , the least. must be split to bronze. Also the offspring if indeed is from the above parents, she must be carrying one white eye gene as well as either a white gene or a pied gene. The offsring hen does not appear to be carrying either of the white or pied gene.

Pedda, Looks can be deceiving. I have a pair of Charcoals from Deerman - male is white eye and the hen is IB split to charcoal. I got pure white, pieds, W/E and IB from that one pair. The hen has no white feathers at all but Deerman checked and she is also split pied. He checked on the male W/E and he too was split pied. Deerman told me I was gonna get a colorful hatch out of them and I did. He did not breed the pair cause she was just turning 2 and he was selling off his birds due to illness. I took the bird cause I wanted 2 hens for the male.

If that hen is in fact a bronze pied that would make the son plit to bronze and if he bred his mother would make the chick bronze like DAS stated.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Frosty,,we have an abundance of 2012 hatched bronze peachicks here. I think we have at least 6 Bronze that we kept back.

 

[pedda munnangi]

Hi, My friend Yoda, If Your charcoal male split W/E from Deerman (split pied ) X Indiablue split charcoal (split pied ) = produced Pure white, Pied, W/E, and IB chicks. Now my question 1) Pure white chick (TT) must have gotten one white gene ( T ) from each of the parents. Does't it mean that the charcoal male parent is not only split to W/E and pied, but also split to white (T) ?. Similarly the IB hen not only split to charcoal and pied but also carrying White ( T ) gene? then it makes both the parents pied-showing lot of white on the body.. Now if a peafowl carrys one white gene and one pied gene= it will be a pied chick showing lot of white on the body. Therefore, what I assume is that, the pair you got from Deerman must be split to white, because two pied genes in one bird do not make it a white chick but a dark pied and two white genes ( TT )makes a bird pure white. You said that you also got pied chicks. A pied chick (TPd) must inherit one white gene( T) from one parent and a pied gene( Pd) from another because these two genes are alleles. If either of these parents carried both T gene and Pd gene, then it is a pied parent showing lot of white on the body. I am unable to figureout the genetic composition of these parents in order to get both white and pied offsprings.How is it possible to get a pure white chick from the parents not carrying white genes at all unless it is a spontaneous mutation ?. I uderstand that a peafowl can not be split to white and pied at the same time without expressing pied nature- lot of white on the body . I understand that you got IB chicks and chicks with W/E because the parents carry those genes. I agree that a peafowl with a pied gene or a W/E gene some times may not show either white flights or white throat patch that I learnt from you. I fully understand you and our friend Mr Das regarding the bronze genetics. 2) My another question is, any colored peafowl split to white, DOES or DOES NOT show white flight feathers ( Primary or secondary or tertiary) ofcourse May or may not show a throat patch. 3) On the other hand A peafowl with white flight feathers ( no white any where else on the body) means ???. Is it carrying, whitegene,or pied gene or dark pied (2 copies of pied genes ) or W/E gene ( one or two copies ) ? or could be carrying any one of the above ? I am learning a lot from BYC forum. Thanks to all members for their input.

 

[Arbor]

I know this topic is slowly veering off the original question, my apologies

Hi, My friend Yoda, If Your charcoal male split W/E from Deerman (split pied ) X Indiablue split charcoal (split pied ) = produced Pure white, Pied, W/E, and IB chicks. Now my question 1) Pure white chick (TT) must have gotten one white gene ( T ) from each of the parents. Does't it mean that the charcoal male parent is not only split to W/E and pied, but also split to white (T) Not possible, as one copy pied, one copy white will produce a visually pied bird. Apparently pied and white occupy the same spot in the gene. Similarly the IB hen not only split to charcoal and pied but also carrying White ( T ) gene? then it makes both the parents pied-showing lot of white on the body.. Now if a peafowl carrys one white gene and one pied gene= it will be a pied chick showing lot of white on the body. Therefore, what I assume is that, the pair you got from Deerman must be split to white, because two pied genes in one bird do not make it a white chick but a dark pied and two white genes ( TT )makes a bird pure white. A dark pied bred to a white bird would produce only visually pied birds You said that you also got pied chicks. A pied chick (TPd) must inherit one white gene( T) from one parent and a pied gene( Pd) from another because these two genes are alleles. If either of these parents carried both T gene and Pd gene, then it is a pied parent showing lot of white on the body. I am unable to figureout the genetic composition of these parents in order to get both white and pied offsprings.How is it possible to get a pure white chick from the parents not carrying white genes at all unless it is a spontaneous mutation ?. I uderstand that a peafowl can not be split to white and pied at the same time without expressing pied nature- lot of white on the body . I understand that you got IB chicks and chicks with W/E because the parents carry those genes. I agree that a peafowl with a pied gene or a W/E gene some times may not show either white flights or white throat patch that I learnt from you. I fully understand you and our friend Mr Das regarding the bronze genetics. 2) My another question is, any colored peafowl split to white, DOES or DOES NOT show white flight feathers ( Primary or secondary or tertiary) ofcourse May or may not show a throat patch. I have had birds that did not show any white flights that were in fact split to white. Throat patch means either dark pied, or split to white 3) On the other hand A peafowl with white flight feathers ( no white any where else on the body) means ???. Is it carrying, whitegene,or pied gene or dark pied (2 copies of pied genes ) or W/E gene ( one or two copies ) ? or could be carrying any one of the above ? I am learning a lot from BYC forum. Thanks to all members for their input. I too have been stumped by yoda's hatch outcome and have made a mental note.

My question for yoda: sorry if I've asked you before, but you mention "I took the bird cause I wanted 2 hens for the male." Does this mean you kept two hens in with the male that fathered both white and pied birds? There has to be something that we are not seeing in the equation for this to occur.

 

[Yoda]

Arbor, no I lost the older hen in a severe thunderstorm at the beginning of the 2011 breeding season. Both hens were in with him at the time. I mis-wrote the age of the hen (mother to the whites) that I still have. She had just turned 2 years old in 2010 and when I got her in 2011 it was her first "breeding" season.

Pedda, I do not know the genetics to clearly but I only have the info I got from Deerman. I asked him how the charcoal pair can throw the colors listed and he said he would check his records. He emailed me back saying the charcoal was also split pied and so was that hen, that is why I got the whites (he had told me when I picked up the birds that I would get a colorful hatch from that pair). I sold almost all the eggs from them this year and I hatched out 1 bird (first egg laid) - it was a pied with lots of white. The woman who bought 4 of them sent me an email that she hatched out a pied as well. The guy who bought most of the eggs did not hatch any due to work issues. Now, this pair is seperated from the rest in their breeding pen and I collected the eggs from the pen and marked them with a "C" for charcoal. So whatever the genetics are suppose to be these birds have them in them. Deerman told me to keep all the chicks from 2011 to see what "color" the white chicks actually are. He said if the white hens do not lay eggs then they are white charcoals and if the white male produces charcoal colored chicks he is a white charcoal male and would be worth money, how much I do not know cause he never said so LOL I also have a hen with a dark brown body and charcoal gray wings. When she stands next to the 2 charcoal hens the look almost the same in color except her body is brown and has green on her neck. Another hen has some white flights and white feathers scattered around her body making her look white poka doted LOL I call her "Dottie" LOL

Sorry Frosty, I didn't mean to steer your thread away

 

[Frosty]

Take the thread where you like, it doesn't bother me a bit! Conversations are supposed to flow, aren't they? I do have a question, though. Yoda, you said the hen isn't IB silver pied. What are you seeing that tells you that? I honestly don't know how to tell.

 

[Yoda]

I was told all IB silver pied hens will have some green feathers on the neck area and your bird is all brown from what I can see in the picture, kinda like this one:

The above hen is a bronze silver pied. She has no green on the neck area. Does your hen have any green neck feathers?

 

[Arbor]

I agree with Yoda and believe the mother is a bronze silver pied given the pic that Frosty posted. I would still consider both purple and bronze in the running as the colour of the chick. The younger pic of the chick that Frosty posted looks like a purple. A bronze chick would be more like an indian blue, with slightly darker head.

 

[Frosty]

I was told all IB silver pied hens will have some green feathers on the neck area and your bird is all brown from what I can see in the picture, kinda like this one:

The above hen is a bronze silver pied. She has no green on the neck area. Does your hen have any green neck feathers?

No green feathers at all, head or neck. I just thought it was because most of her neck is white. When zazouse first saw the chick picks, the possibility of cameo was brought up, but that idea got dropped as the chick got darker. The chick does have some feathers on her neck that reflect greenish blue with a bright light from the right angle. Under normal light conditions I don't see any. Does that give any clues?

Frosty,,we have an abundance of 2012 hatched bronze peachicks here. I think we have at least 6 Bronze that we kept back.

So is that just an observation, or does that mean you have some to sell? If selling is ever an option, do you ship?

 

[Frosty]

I just thought I would add a pic of baby Maya... she is 7.5 months old. She is now out with the other peas, and doesn't seem to know what to make of them. They have looked at her pretty closely, but aren't trying to hurt her.