Colorado Shooting - How horrible!

[Minchi]

If she can take 'hot lead"..... I don't think I want to go down that path. It is her choice, we will leave it at that and does not qualify as irresponsible.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Worth a read....
http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/3...n=Feed:+dailyanarchist/blog+(Daily+Anarchist)

Comments are good too.

 

[mom'sfolly]

It would be more interesting if it actually reported facts.

In the case of Hasan, two of the "civilians", unarmed military personal were killed while trying to take out Hasan, and a third was seriously injured. The first cop was also seriously injured.

Whitman was taken out by a combined group of civilians and police.

In the Luby's massacre at least one civilian fought back and was shot and killed.

Those are just the three Texas ones I know about off the top of my head. If he got the facts wrong on those, he probably did on others as well.

I know of at least on incident where the spree killing didn't happen because the cops got the guy before he actually killed some one. I had worked in the same group of labs as the shooter, and knew him and his victim.

http://www.auditory.org/mhonarc/1995/msg00016.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...uggero-john-arthur-costalupes-costalupes-shot

While the article says that Costalupes committed suicide, people I know who were there said it was actually a police shooting. He was "hunting" on the floor of the building that housed the department that he had worked for. He was armed, but the police were waiting for him.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

It would be more interesting if it actually reported facts.

In the case of Hasan, two of the "civilians", unarmed military personal were killed while trying to take out Hasan, and a third was seriously injured. The first cop was also seriously injured.

Whitman was taken out by a combined group of civilians and police.

In the Luby's massacre at least one civilian fought back and was shot and killed.

Those are just the three Texas ones I know about off the top of my head. If he got the facts wrong on those, he probably did on others as well.

I know of at least on incident where the spree killing didn't happen because the cops got the guy before he actually killed some one. I had worked in the same group of labs as the shooter, and knew him and his victim.

http://www.auditory.org/mhonarc/1995/msg00016.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...uggero-john-arthur-costalupes-costalupes-shot

While the article says that Costalupes committed suicide, people I know who were there said it was actually a police shooting. He was "hunting" on the floor of the building that housed the department that he had worked for. He was armed, but the police were waiting for him.

I dont see any of what he did was wrong. No he did not give every detail of every shooting in what he wrote. Only highlights. He split them in to 2 groups. Those stopped by bystanders before the cops arrived an those stopped after cops arrived. I am no expert in these killings but do you think he mis-categorized these 3 shootings?

Now you could look at the group an split them by if bystanders tried to stop them or not before the cops got there. The numbers will probably be different.

Shootings that did not happen cant be counted as we have no way of knowing how many would-be shooters are stopped or who stopped them.


He seems to respond to his comments so leave him those comments.

 

[mom'sfolly]

I'm simply pointing out the logical fallacy. He concludes that civilian intervention results in lower death rate. This does not follow even from the cases he presented. Civilian, and I use that term very loosely, intervention in at least two of the cases he cites ended in civilian death.

You can as easily claim, from the limited cases he presented, that deadliest can only be taken out by the police. Or that young shooters will give up their weapons when confronted with any authority figure.

This isn't a scientific study, this isn't even a random sampling of spree shootings. And in all cases the cherry picking was to reinforce the idea that civilians are better able to stop these guys.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

If you think that then tell him what he did wrong.

I would like to see how he responds.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Actually, other people have pointed out at least part of what I said.

 

[thaiturkey]

Back on topic...

This is a really interesting read.

http://news.yahoo.com/mass-murder-a...interplay-of-stigma--culture-and-disease.html

That's an interesting article.

It's too early for us to have an expert opinion on his mental state but I think it's worth looking at the characteristics of a sociopath. The term covers a range of social detachment characteristics, ranging from misanthrope to psychopath. Perhaps this killer's profile is somewhere within the profile of sociopaths.

Take a look at this:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

 

[Minchi]

On the mental state note Colorado Mental health facilities have a C rating and an F in promotion of medical treatment. I know someone who had a nervous breaking down and she said the there were no mental wards in her area. She lived in Parker and that is a fairly major area just outside Denver with two major hospitals. They kept her in the hospital for a days and then sent her home with a prescription for sedatives.

On top of that I helped out at a Denver mental health center when I was in High School and it was the most depressing place I have ever been. They had homeless people who didn't have any mental issue, staff stole from the patients, they were way over filled and under staffed. The conditions of the place was also dismal and I didn't see any effort made to help the patients. Now this was a state run facility but maybe instead of looking at the guns we should take a look at the mental health facilities in our country. The shootings I know of were all perpetrated by someone with serious mental health issue. The Colorado gun man is yet to be seen but it looks like it will be as well.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

maybe instead of looking at the guns we should take a look at the mental health facilities in our country.

A sitting Ga Sheriff said the same thing on a forum about this shooting the other day...