Colorado Shooting - How horrible!

[Minchi]

That's an interesting article.

It's too early for us to have an expert opinion on his mental state but I think it's worth looking at the characteristics of a sociopath. The term covers a range of social detachment characteristics, ranging from misanthrope to psychopath. Perhaps this killer's profile is somewhere within the profile of sociopaths.

Take a look at this:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

We in the US are not allowed to use the word 'psychopath' it has a negative connotation so we call it 'antisocial personality disorder' even though it is not exactly the same thing. It was taken out of the DSM and most psychologist will diagnose antisocial personality disorder.

 

[Minchi]

A sitting Ga Sheriff said the same thing on a forum about this shooting the other day...

There are serious problems in this area, the US as a whole gets a C rating, and only 6 states got an A. We keep throwing laws at people rather then dealing with the real issues. Take Columbine for example the two kids, Eric and Dennis were severely bullied every day and teachers stood by and watched it happen. I know this for a fact, and not because I read it. Virginia Tech the panel that reviewed the shooting blamed the teachers and staff at the school for not acting on his strange behavior earlier.

We like to make ourselves believe that this is completely unexpected and there was no way we could have known but as light start to shine on these cases we find out that it was obvious all along.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Oh I know lots of people that are crazy an need real help an all they get is some pills an sent home. I know one guy that has actually killed his self an was revived in the ER among other things an they just give him pills an let him do whatever... An he has a gun permit issued after all this stuff by the state of AL...

 

[thaiturkey]

We in the US are not allowed to use the word 'psychopath' it has a negative connotation so we call it 'antisocial personality disorder' even though it is not exactly the same thing. It was taken out of the DSM and most psychologist will diagnose antisocial personality disorder.

The UK follows the same gobblegook list of terms. 'Sociopath' include such a wide range of 'disorders' that mild sufferers may be offended to be linked by the term to those who are criminally insane.

 

[Royd]

The UK follows the same gobblegook list of terms. 'Sociopath' include such a wide range of 'disorders' that mild sufferers may be offended to be linked by the term to those who are criminally insane.

That's why we prefer such terms as Looney Toons.

 

[thaiturkey]

That's why we prefer such terms as Looney Toons.

A term invented by a guy who was not quite the ticket himself, I recall.

 

[Royd]

A term invented by a guy who was not quite the ticket himself, I recall.

Of course, there's always the old standby, index finger to temple, in a circular motion and saying, Coocoo.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Unfortunately, parents, teachers, co-workers, friends, etc can see someone degenerating into mental illness and still not be able to do anything. Rules in this country for forced treatment start with a 72 hold for psychiatric evaluation. But this hold can only be forced if someone is an immediate danger to themselves or others. Getting a court order of commitment without some violence is almost impossible.

Almost every city and states lacks inpatient facilities. Insurance companies don't want to pay for inpatient treatment and all the state hospitals have been closed. Many of the mentally ill end up housed in jail.

Even if you do get the diagnosis and help, continuing treatment is almost always a problem. Many of the mentally ill do not recognize the fact that they are ill, and will stop taking meds when they feel better.

So a college professor can say "man that guy Fred behavior is getting really odd, I think he needs help", and all it will do is get Fred kicked out of school, probably making the condition worse. Or the neighbors can call the police and say Fred is acting erratically and is armed. When they police show up, yep Fred's acting weird and he does have guns; but the guns are legal and Fred isn't threatening anyone, so the police leave.
Every time someone says "they should have done something, they knew he was acting strange or was mentally ill", I do this:

Because the families involved probably had tried to get help, the teachers had probably said something to someone, and the co-workers had tried to help; but their hands were tied, and in the end the only thing they could do was mourn and wish the system worked better.

 

[Royd]

Unfortunately, parents, teachers, co-workers, friends, etc can see someone degenerating into mental illness and still not be able to do anything. Rules in this country for forced treatment start with a 72 hold for psychiatric evaluation. But this hold can only be forced if someone is an immediate danger to themselves or others. Getting a court order of commitment without some violence is almost impossible.

Almost every city and states lacks inpatient facilities. Insurance companies don't want to pay for inpatient treatment and all the state hospitals have been closed. Many of the mentally ill end up housed in jail.

Even if you do get the diagnosis and help, continuing treatment is almost always a problem. Many of the mentally ill do not recognize the fact that they are ill, and will stop taking meds when they feel better.

So a college professor can say "man that guy Fred behavior is getting really odd, I think he needs help", and all it will do is get Fred kicked out of school, probably making the condition worse. Or the neighbors can call the police and say Fred is acting erratically and is armed. When they police show up, yep Fred's acting weird and he does have guns; but the guns are legal and Fred isn't threatening anyone, so the police leave.
Every time someone says "they should have done something, they knew he was acting strange or was mentally ill", I do this:

Because the families involved probably had tried to get help, the teachers had probably said something to someone, and the co-workers had tried to help; but their hands were tied, and in the end the only thing they could do was mourn and wish the system worked better.

The downside to your argument is the erosion of personal freedom and the increase of police power...As it is, we now have Hate Crimes, instead of just crimes, as if we can determine what really went on inside a person's head before hand....There is a movie, Minority Report, I believe, with Tom Cruise, where thoughts are processed and crimes stopped before they are even a conscious reality to the perceived perpetrator. It may seem farfetched, now, but so was the book 1984, when it was written....Now, political ideologies have adopted many of the concepts, such as turning the meaning of words on their head, so that there is no real definition.

 

[mom'sfolly]

Royd...you completely missed my point.

It used to be you could get people committed for almost anything. In the 1950s, women could get committed for being promiscuous, and men for being gay. This is all about patient rights and freedoms. Simply put, you cannot compel treatment of any illness, unless that person is a minor. I completely get the patient rights thing. Nobody should be forced into treatment, sterilized, etc on someone's whim; but the downside of this is it is impossible for a well-meaning family member, friend, co-worker or pastor to get someone help. There needs to be something between the abuses of the past and the impossibilities of the present.

Getting people help they need shouldn't require the jumping through hoops that it does. Getting in-patient care until someone is stabilized shouldn't mean a court order or bankrupting a family. And the nice people who keep saying "why didn't someone do something, they knew he was sick" haven't a clue.