Compost and bedding questions!

[NatJ]

I think what you're referring to is the "deep composting method" and I found that with eleven chickens, no amount of turning, new material, etc, could help keep the sheer volume of poop that accumulated dry.

We had 50 chickens in a 12 by 12 foot chicken house, all through an Alaskan winter, with no access to outdoors. When we'd clean out the bedding (spring and maybe fall), it was dusty-dry.

We didn't have a name for it, but I did already state that it was not wet enough to actually rot in place.

In earlier years, we had 7 chickens in a 4x8 foot coop. They also stayed inside all winter. Their bedding was usually had either wet patches (summer) or frozen patches (winter). The bedding fell out the door when it got somewhat deep. The chickens did not keep the bedding stirred up well, either, and that coop got cleaned a lot more often.

The concern with that much poop is the ammonia.

Yup, we had a lot of that the first winter with the big coop. (My Dad thought chickens needed to be warm. We made changes before the next winter.)

Honestly it took me more time to turn the poop daily, go get the fresh bedding and add more to it every couple of days, and then to constantly be buying more bedding.

We did not turn in the poop; we dumped the kitchen scraps/compost in each day; weeks or months went by between times when we added fresh bedding, although then we did add several inches at a time. Very little labor. I remember a very few times grabbing a pitchfork to break up a mat of manure right under the perch--maybe a few times each year.

My chickens never scratched around in their bedding either. Even on the coldest most miserable of days they only come in the coop to lay eggs.

Our chickens were shut in all winter. They did a lot of scratching in the bedding, and even took dust baths in it. I think it was partly because there was little else to do, partly because that's where we dumped the food scraps, partly because they had more space--the ones in the smaller coop in earlier years did a lot less scratching. I think the chickens scratch because they're looking for stuff to eat, and with the mixture we had, they were forever picking out bits of stuff and eating them. (I do not know exactly WHAT they were eating, and I'm not sure I really want to know--but it certainly did not hurt them.)

Switching to Grounds coffee bedding (or sand) has made my daily cleanup a breeze.

Glad you found what works well for you! I enjoyed your article--interesting to see what different methods are best for different people.

I'm spending way, way less money on bedding as well.

My Mom did not buy bedding. We raked leaves under our own trees in the fall; a few times we hauled wood shavings from a sawmill; one year the utility company was chipping brush and dumped a big pile of chips for us; a few years when we thought we might run short of bedding we volunteered to help rake leaves off the lawn at a local church--then brought all the bagged leaves home with us. (Great for them and for us: they wanted the leaves gone, we wanted to have the leaves.) Now that I think about it, straw/hay were mostly not used, probably because of what things were available free for us.

 

[LittleRedCoopLady]

100% do not use newspaper. It compacts too much, doesn't dry out well, etc. It will stink and just be a mess. I used straw for a long time but it was too dusty and molded too easily so I switched to pine shavings. I added a droppings board and kinds scooped any large piles of poop that made it onto the bedding so I could go about 4 months without replacing the pine shavings before it broke down too much and became too dusty. Both of those things can be composted! Recently I switched to Grounds recycled coffee ground bedding. It was a tad expensive in that I spent $30 on enough bedding for the birds, but this has allowed me to scoop the poop from the droppings board and scoop it from the bedding as well. I have started saving and drying my own coffee grounds to keep the coop replenished. At this rate I'll only have to change bedding about once a year, if that. Currently I've had it in there for 3 weeks and the bedding has zero poop in it because its so easy to keep clean. It smells incredible. The girls seem to love it. So there's my recommendation.

After reading this, I'm looking into getting some for my coop! We've just started a compost bin and I think this would be an easier way to get the poo from the coop to the compost bin! Also, excited to see if we use less. I have three LF Cochins and I've noticed that I have to clean out the coop more often, which means for pine shavings. One question, Do you put the Grounds in the next boxes as well? Or do you keep shavings in there?

 

[LittleRedCoopLady]

After reading this, I'm looking into getting some for my coop! We've just started a compost bin and I think this would be an easier way to get the poo from the coop to the compost bin! Also, excited to see if we use less. I have three LF Cochins and I've noticed that I have to clean out the coop more often, which means for pine shavings. One question, Do you put the Grounds in the next boxes as well? Or do you keep shavings in there?

One more question, It comes in bags, how large is your coop and how many bags did you have to buy? It's on sale for $10 a bag right now.

 

[humblehillsfarm]

One question, Do you put the Grounds in the next boxes as well? Or do you keep shavings in there?

I used pine shavings in the nest boxes.

One more question, It comes in bags, how large is your coop and how many bags did you have to buy? It's on sale for $10 a bag right now.

I think my coop is about 5'x6'. I used three bags which were $10 each and the bedding is around 3"-4" deep. I have started putting my own personal grounds on a tray to dry throughout the day. I nailed small boards in front of the doors of the coop to help keep the coffee from falling out. It seems very little has fallen out in the three weeks I've used it and not a lot sticks to any poop I scoop out. I am thinking my own coffee grounds will be plenty to restore any that's lost and I am hoping that I only need to replace all of the grounds 1-2 times a year.

 

[humblehillsfarm]

Glad you found what works well for you! I enjoyed your article--interesting to see what different methods are best for different people.

It is mind boggling to me that moisture and odor wasn't an issue with so many birds when it was such a horrible problem for me. I wonder if humidity caused it? Was there a dropping board in that coop?? I mean there is a cult following for people who use deep compositing, but for me it was an utter flop. The humidity in my area is high so maybe that contributes to some of my issues. I was even using stuff that you add to help it compost faster. Thanks for checking out my article though. It means a lot I only wrote it to record my own experience as I go along.

 

[paintedChix]

O, boy!! (steepled &/or rubbing hands under chin while grinning & "cackling")... A "newbie"...

Op - what state & what weather patterns do you have? How many chickens? How big & what type of a coop do you have? Is it directly on ground or does it have a floor? How big is your run and do you have a base that would allow you to do the composting in the run?

You can set up a "bin" of many different types right in your chicken run. It can be completely covered or left open at the top. You can make it roughly the size that many say it should be or it could even be smaller (wouldn't necessarily go with larger...). If your run is big enough there is no reason why you can't compost right in the run. If the chickens spread it out to much (you want them to, it turns and breaks down your pile), you can use a pitchfork and restack it if you like or it can be left to incorporate into your run litter. You can compost in a card board box - as the compost itself breaks down, so will the box - joining your compost. Until then, it contains the stuff w/i - allowing your chickens access depending on how tall or weather it's closed.

In the coop/runs that I have (the coop section is part of the run - open to the ground - hooped coop/pens), i have composted anything the chickens will eat. I also use shredded cardboard/bills/junk mail/paper/news paper (remove all plastic windows & cards - credit/debit type), hay, straw, weeds, garden trimmings, grass clippings and wood mulch. I have put out stuff that has spoiled, however, i put it in the outdoors part of the pens & bury it a bit. If the chickens dig it up and go through it fine, but I don't leave it in the open. I also will drip out meat fat - from bacon, hamburger, brats, roasts etc - before it turns rancid. Again, if the chickens eat it, fine, if not, THEY turn it into the run litter - less work for you and doesn't go to our landfills. Same with milk, yogurt, cheese. If bad, bury it a bit. You can dig a trench in your run if you like - I haven't done that. However, I'm not in a neighborhood nor do our permanent chicken areas sit right up close to our home. We are more likely to get the hog stench from a commercial hog farm several miles away, then our own compost/chicken scents.

RE: shredded paper - RIGHT NOW, if you are concerned due to Cvirus protocols, wear gloves and some type of mask to collect/shred products. Remove gloves or wash gloved hands using Cvirus protocols BEFORE doing anything else. Feed & gardening stores have gloves that can be washed (not a cloth or knitted type) - that for gosh sakes are not on back order as medical types are. If you use a home made mask (sewn, made from socks, made from bandana, etc) - line it next to your face w/ a coffee filter. Shown to be very effective and also not on back order right now (*until the general public realizes what they can do & starts hoarding those*). After shredding, wash down the top/sides/front/back of your shredder with some type of acceptable cleaner proven to neutralize Corona virus(s). At home i use a vinegar or bleach solution and at work we use Kennesol (same as what we disinfect our dog/cat kennels with). Then move your shred out to where you want to use it. No big deal. Just use common sense and proper protocols. If collecting cardboard/newspaper - spray it down with lysol & use your gloves. It does work. I do it. No one in our 6 family home is ill. 2 of us still work outside the home, 2 work from home. 1 main person does our shopping at certain times of day... The two grand daughters are following online schooling from their elementary schools. They haven't been off our property since the schools shut down.

The main thing w/ a DLM is different sized materials. If you use only one type of material, you will end up with a mess that stinks, is slimy &/or packs down into a hard/compacted, not usable matt and will attract flies. You do want to see ground bugs in your run - more protein to feed your chickens. If you do use a DLM in your coop, it does need to have a certain moisture level to be composting in place. If it's got a floor, you will need to introduce organisms (biome?) from outdoors to get it to work. If it's dusty, you just spray it down a bit. Yep, throwing the veggie scraps or scratch under a roost (not on poop boards) works wonders for your chickens to turn the nightly deposits. I'm not up in freezing country, so I don't know how well this might work in Canada, the upper mid-west or Alaska. My Iowan grand parents did this on their farm and didn't have frozen piles of chicken waste, so....

We have had dead chickens, ducks, feral/outdoor cats & rabbits over the last few years - since moving to this new place and getting more critters. We do have a compost pile set up in wood/wire bins that wild animals/our dogs can't tear apart - we have composted spoiled meat that didn't get used/consumed, put the bodies mentioned above in it, humanure/bath tissue/baby wipes, dog feces/toweling used to clean up small dog pee spots, cat litter, chicken parts not given to dogs/cats/back to chickens, grease, etc. Every time something is added that is thrown out, a layer of straw or leaves or shredded paper is added over the top. You should not smell any of what is thrown into the pile once it is covered. If you smell it, you need to cover it better. Our 2 granddaughters haven't mastered this yet, so an adult has to help... Our first pile is just now finally "full" (about 3' deep and 4' to a side) covered and not being added to now - we have added to it since 2015 - in all actuality - it has several times gotten hot enough to compost down and stuff at the bottom is probably usable now. It will sit for the next year. Next month, I will introduce red wrigglers to it. I expect to have it turn into nice compost. Next summer, I will check it out - run it through a sieve - plastic bits (feminine pads/doggie piddle pads) will be put into the regular trash & bones, large plant pieces etc will be added to the current new pile and covered again. IF I choose to use it next year, it will go around our fruit trees (we have 9 so far!! just ordered 12 more!!), roses (2 in front yard), azalea (lining the front of the house) for fertilizer - not into beds used for underground tubers, asparagus, lettuces or strawberries. I have done this in the past and it works well.

Edited to add - I read the blog post by humblehills farm. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Her form of deep bedding (one component kept dry except for chicken waste - looks like it was in an indoor coop w/ a floor, not on the ground) is completely different to our form of deep litter method (different size/different materials on the ground in our coops/runs/pens - still occasionally gets too dry so we wet it or too wet so we add more drying type materials). Personally we are doing two completely different methods.

Straw doesn't compost by itself (in fact, most single things won't unless left in nature and it is broken down by weather, insects, mixing with other products of different sizes, TIME etc). It is hollow so will/can harbor pests, molds, disease and like she states, certainly isn't real warm UNLESS banked and packed down or left in bales. Most beddings - even shredded paper (especially so, actually), will become dusty. Just the birds kept on paper towels are dusty critters - add in any bedding of any type and as they shred it and it breaks down, it ALL becomes dusty and can be nasty. Airborne chicken dander is nasty.

Pine flakes, shavings and dust also do not compost very fast or easily - by itself or even in a compost pile - and will become dusty as it does break down.

Some bags of PDZ are so dusty, they require a mask to put down. I've worked in stables/barns and it can get bad, too. It used to be printed on the bags, when it first came out, that it should be applied in large situations with a mask & protective clothing. The current, smaller bags don't say that. I have some, I've used it.

I couldn't do the poop board method of clean up - would drive me insane! But I love my composting/compostable DLM!

AND yes, when a hurricane system dumps 11" of rain on you all at once, especially when you've already had 2 months of regular, heavy rain neither the ground around the chicken runs nor the chicken run DLM will soak up all the water. There is no where for that water to go until the ground and mama nature naturally take it up. You put more materials down (if you have them) or you put down pallets for your chickens to walk/stand on in the run until everything starts working properly again. Because we are on a lot of sand - it didn't take long and it all started working again! Just the bare sand here in our area of NC stinks when it gets wet. Our dogs STINK after they go out in the rain and roll in the sand that is not yet a nice soil...

Edited again - here are some pictures of what we have used and our DLM

DLM

this is a chicken album - it shows shredded paper in our brooders, leaves in nest boxes etc - Chicken & Ducks

OK, think my silly brain is done adding now...

 

[NatJ]

It is mind boggling to me that moisture and odor wasn't an issue with so many birds when it was such a horrible problem for me. I wonder if humidity caused it? Was there a dropping board in that coop??

Odor was very much a problem the first year, but the bedding itself was dry on the surface, and very dry and dusty underneath. No dropping board at all--the roost was a 2x4 board running straight across from one side of the coop to the other (12 feet long). I think we had two roosts, one about waist high and another a few feet farther from the wall about head high. Of course, the chickens all wanted to sleep on the higher one. The droppings just fell down on the floor underneath.

Winters in that part of Alaska tend to be quite dry. Plenty of feet of snow, but very little humidity in the air.

The odor--well, it was bad that first year. Very bad. In later years, we added more ventilation, and some years had less chickens. Unfortunately, I left for college before it got entirely fixed.

That coop was insulated (4" thick fiberglass batts in the walls, thicker in the roof), with plywood outside and particle board inside, and was built nice and tight. Dad put a cute little vent in the door--probably a foot long and 3 inches wide, with baffles that could be closed if too much cold came in. When the outside temperature was below zero (farenheit), it was still 80 degrees inside, just from the chickens' body heat! Dad put in a bigger vent partway through the winter (maybe 2 square feet), but it was still not nearly enough. I think they finally just replaced the wood door with a wire mesh door a few years later, after I'd left home.

Since then, I am a big fan of ventilation, and of open-front coops in any climate less extreme than Alaska!

But as relates to composting bedding--the bedding was always quite dry. Not a chance of being wet enough to rot while it was in there.

 

[humblehillsfarm]

Okay noting the odor makes a lot more sense. I will say when I had only four boards the deep composting method worked like a charm. With more birds and a $140 vet bill to fix an upper respiratory infection that I hope to never have to deal with again, I have become anal retentive about coop cleanliness, which is what then drove me to find more cost effective ways of maintaining that cleanliness. I don't have the heart to put down a good bird due to simple infection. :/

 

[humblehillsfarm]

Edited to add - I read the blog post by humblehills farm. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Her form of deep bedding (one component kept dry except for chicken waste - looks like it was in an indoor coop w/ a floor, not on the ground) is completely different to our form of deep litter method (different size/different materials on the ground in our coops/runs/pens - still occasionally gets too dry so we wet it or too wet so we add more drying type materials). Personally we are doing two completely different methods.

....

Some bags of PDZ are so dusty, they require a mask to put down. I've worked in stables/barns and it can get bad, too. It used to be printed on the bags, when it first came out, that it should be applied in large situations with a mask & protective clothing. The current, smaller bags don't say that. I have some, I've used it.

I couldn't do the poop board method of clean up - would drive me insane! But I love my composting/compostable DLM!

First, thanks for reading my little post Second, the PDZ I buy hasn't been dusty but I've never purchased any other brand. Third, the poop board takes about 2 minutes to clean so I haven't minded at all just because I've enjoyed having a clean coop, but I can tell you that no one in my house ever volunteers for the job! On your comment about dustiness, I did recently switch to Grounds (coffee grounds) bedding and I believe I could either eliminate the dropping board all together or start using it on top of the board for scooping. I think probably it's easier to scoop from the board so I don't have to reach low between the roosts... sometimes there's poop on those too.

On one more note on your comments, I found pine shavings made it about five months before they started breaking down and it was all a very dusty mess.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Coffee is AMAZING in compost. I bought the Grounds brand from Tractor Supply.

Ok this is the first time I've heard of coffee grounds as a bedding... must smell amaaaazing (well, if you love coffee). Too bad I can't possibly drink enough coffee to try that (since free is best!)