Confused-----want a sustaining flock

[HeritageGoose13]

Where did you hear that hatchery birds are genetically altered? This is false information. Even the Cornish cross meat birds are not genetically altered, they're simply a result of intense selective breeding.

Your statement is contradictory. Intense selective breeding has genetically altered them. That is the purpose of selective breeding, to alter genes. There is nothing false about it. All domestic animals are genetically altered from their wild counterparts, some more than others. CX are altered to such a degree they certainly cannot be called "sustainable," which is what the OP wants.

Some people here are confusing genetic alteration with genetic engineering/modification, which involves gene splicing from one species into another.

The OP should find a good dual-purpose breed that can thrive in Florida's hot climate. Probably something with clean (non-feathered) legs and a large, single comb.

Hatchery birds have not been genetically altered, Cornish X included. They are the result of selective breeding programs, just like those with backyard breeder flocks. They just have different goals. Most people order hatchery chicks for layers, so they concentrate on egg laying abilities more so than meat. Private breeders tend to work on the whole package. That being said, a true dual purpose breed will have less meat and take more time to mature than a meat bird, and will lay fewer eggs than you'd get from a production type.

Hatchery chickens are not genetically altered.

 

[donrae]

Your statement is contradictory. Intense selective breeding has genetically altered them. That is the purpose of selective breeding, to alter genes. There is nothing false about it. All domestic animals are genetically altered from their wild counterparts, some more than others. CX are altered to such a degree they certainly cannot be called "sustainable," which is what the OP wants.

Some people here are confusing genetic alteration with genetic engineering/modification, which involves gene splicing from one species into another.

The OP should find a good dual-purpose breed that can thrive in Florida's hot climate. Probably something with clean (non-feathered) legs and a large, single comb.

Then by your definition, the OP's sole option is Jungle Fowl, if they're taken from the wild and not bred by humans at all. I highly doubt that's what they're looking for, either

 

[Ifish]

Your statement is contradictory. Intense selective breeding has genetically altered them. That is the purpose of selective breeding, to alter genes. There is nothing false about it. All domestic animals are genetically altered from their wild counterparts, some more than others. CX are altered to such a degree they certainly cannot be called "sustainable," which is what the OP wants.

Some people here are confusing genetic alteration with genetic engineering/modification, which involves gene splicing from one species into another.

The OP should find a good dual-purpose breed that can thrive in Florida's hot climate. Probably something with clean (non-feathered) legs and a large, single comb.

Normally, when one states that Cornish X or Hatchery birds are Genetically Altered, they are mostly assuming Genetically Modified. Most don't consider selective breeding and hybridization as "Genetically Altered", as the term is usually reserved for something that happened in a lab somewhere. Some Monsanto grain for example can be described as Genetically altered, but we use Genetically Modified. Often interchanged, though not always correct, but the meaning is still there.

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

Normally, when one states that Cornish X or Hatchery birds are Genetically Altered, they are mostly assuming Genetically Modified. Most don't consider selective breeding and hybridization as "Genetically Altered", as the term is usually reserved for something that happened in a lab somewhere.  Some Monsanto grain for example can be described as Genetically altered, but we use Genetically Modified. Often interchanged, though not always correct, but the meaning is still there.

x2

 

[HeritageGoose13]

What you people are thinking of is genetic modification/engineering. Genetic alteration is an un-related process. I am not making these definitions up, this is the correct use of the terms. It is confusing when people use words the wrong way. I am trying to clear things up.

Some breeds and hybrids have been more genetically altered than others. Heritage breeds are less altered than Cornish X and other types of hybrids. It's a matter of degree. Asian gamefowl are much less altered than say, naked neck frizzles, in the same way a husky is less altered (from the original wolf) than a maltese x toy poodle cross. I hope you are able to understand.

By the way, jungle fowl are not chickens. They are the ancestor of chickens. Hatcheries claiming jungle fowl is a breed or chicken are lying and selling mutts, not real jungle fowl.

 

[varidgerunner]

Junglefowl are chickens in every way. While it is true that it would be hard to find a hatchery chicken claimed to be a junglefowl that was much more than a brown leghorn/American game cross, you would also be hard pressed to find a wild junglefowl that hadn't been mixed with domestic chickens at some point in their ancestory.

 

[Ifish]

What you people are thinking of is genetic modification/engineering. Genetic alteration is an un-related process. I am not making these definitions up, this is the correct use of the terms. It is confusing when people use words the wrong way. I am trying to clear things up.

Some breeds and hybrids have been more genetically altered than others. Heritage breeds are less altered than Cornish X and other types of hybrids. It's a matter of degree. Asian gamefowl are much less altered than say, naked neck frizzles, in the same way a husky is less altered (from the original wolf) than a maltese x toy poodle cross. I hope you are able to understand.

By the way, jungle fowl are not chickens. They are the ancestor of chickens. Hatcheries claiming jungle fowl is a breed or chicken are lying and selling mutts, not real jungle fowl.

I understand the differentiation. The point is, a lot of people use GA and GM to mean the same thing. Using the OP's own term was much easier to get the point across than a long winded explanation of proper terminology, as none of it really had to do with their questions, which I put more emphasis on.

 

[Michael OShay]

Junglefowl are chickens in every way. While it is true that it would be hard to find a hatchery chicken claimed to be a junglefowl that was much more than a brown leghorn/American game cross, you would also be hard pressed to find a wild junglefowl that hadn't been mixed with domestic chickens at some point in their ancestory.

X2 on varidgerunner; Junglefowl are most definitely chickens. The scientific name for the Red Junglefowl is Gallus gallus. The scientific name for the domestic chicken is Gallus gallus domesticus; in other words a "domesticated Red Junglefowl." The information contained within the genes of the Red Junglefowl and the domestic chicken is identical.

 

[Michael OShay]

Then by your definition, the OP's sole option is Jungle Fowl, if they're taken from the wild and not bred by humans at all. I highly doubt that's what they're looking for, either

X2 on donrae's post.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Chickens are a domestic animal. Jungle fowl are wild. They have different names to indicate they are different. Pure jungle-fowl absolutely exist, they are just rare. Many people on this forum own them. Go ask them about it. Get educated.

If junglefowl are chickens, then wolves are dogs, aurochs are oxen, etc... Again, there are excellent teachers here on BYC who can help people understand this better.

Back on topic...

Earlier I suggested the OP get a heritage breed, as have a few others. I would particularly suggest the Catalana. They are said to be productive in hot weather.