Consolidated Kansas

[Chickies-duckies-etc]

Sprouting wheat/grains for animal (or people) food. There have been several threads about this on another forum. Lots of great ideas and information. I have a rack I can use and in looking for some trays, I found this site ~ https://wheatgrassandsprouts.com/supplies-c-21.html?osCsid=hhl33ud8tsvn00cuhk3mtmo0o6 ~ Some people are using large systems to feed large herds of cattle, and other animals. Very interesting.

 

[sharol]

The rooster thing is difficult. The fighting problem problem seems pretty small to police who are dealing with domestic violence or break-ins, so investigation gets put on the back burner. They tether the roos (as I understand) to keep them from fighting when they are fairly close together. Separate cages would be lots more expensive.

I am chuckling over your train comment. How true. There are SO MANY THINGS that are more annoying than roosters; however, we don't have real control over any of them. We lived in the flight path of Mcconnell (sp?) airbase in Wichita in the early 70's. The noise was so bad when they scrambled the planes that our windows shook. After a couple of months (the rent was cheap because of the location, and it was a nice house in a safe neighborhood so we just put up with it), we would just stop talking and wait for them to finish their passes.

I think that the only way they can pass any sort of resolution (assuming it comes before the commission -- the newspaper last night said it might not come up for discussion since there was so little interest on either side) is if roosters are banned if only because of the history of cock fighting in the community.

On the Dolly Madison thing, according to KVOE, Hostess has filed to liquidate assets. The plant could close, or someone (another bakery for instance) could buy the company and reopen under new management. It is my understanding that if the company liquidates, all the negotiated contracts become null and void and the new owner would set his own pay rates and benefit rates. I'm not sure where that leaves the existing employees, but it can't be a good scenario for the higher paid people who are nearing retirement. I have seriously mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, Hostess was pretty heavy handed with the reductions of pay, benefits, and retirement income for their employees in the contract that came out of the bankruptcy. On the other hand, one can't run a company if one can't make a profit. I have friends who are Dolly employees, and they are pretty angry at the reorganization. Edited to add: The Emporia Gazette website has a more thorough explanation. www.emporiagazette.com

It looks like the plant will be closed at least temporarily. If you want to track the drama, KVOE does a pretty good job of posting info on their website in the news page. (the site is UGLY, but they have current news). You can't read it with a Droid phone though because the font size doesn't seem to translate to Android -- not sure about Apple devices.

*****

Isn't cock fighting illegal everywhere? Thanks Sharol, I see you say it is. So if tethering a rooster to a small shelter is what they do for fighting birds then shouldn't it be obvious who to investigate if people are seeing this in places? I'm laughing about the rooster crowing in the middle of the night. I don't mind the sound of the rooster and my own roosters won't wake me. So, why aren't trains banned? I mean, they're loud too. I'm just joking but really you can get used to whatever noise you want to or need to. Even a barking dog can be annoying, yet we learn to ignore it. I like hearing them, even my neighbor's rooster makes me smile when I hear him and I can't even see their property. Does tethering the rooster make him mean? Is tethering only done to roosters intended for fighting? I don't get how if it's illegal how they are allowed to continue to do it.

chickies-duckies-etc wrote:
May I suggest, instead of proposing banning roos from the beginning, leave that as an option if "the noise factor" is one of the contributing factors to leave the ban? I don't remember for sure, but I think Emporia has a "noise" clause anyway. If so, a bothersome roo could be handled with that and a quiet, one that is not bothering anyone could be kept legally. Something to think about?

I just wanted to say that I like that. Not that it affects me, we don't live there anymore. Are you saying Dolly Madison may be closing too?????

 

[HEChicken]

I'm finding it very interesting about this feed thing. But probably don't want to do this with winter bearing down on us. I'm all about the easy. (or the warm)

Anyway, I think your pouring the ACV into the Braggs was totally fine, it should work both ways. And I wouldn't have wanted to waste it either.

I've looked for it in our Walmart with no luck, but that is really good news that yours carries it, I wonder if ours will eventually.

I'm not finding the fermenting to be particularly more time-consuming - I have just incorporated it into the rest of my chores down at the coop, so we'll see how it goes as I continue. I just started my second batch this morning. So funny that I started with the amount I thought they would eat in one day and it lasted two full days. Perhaps that is because they are eating less or perhaps because when it swells up with water, they feel fuller sooner. Either way I'm not complaining. They do love it and go ape over it when I put it out for them.

Starting the second batch, I had to come up to the house to get the cup of ACV so as long as I was in the kitchen, I went ahead and filled a gallon jug with warm water. It will ferment in cool water but the water at the coop this morning had icicles in it since it got down to 29 here last night so I figured the fermentation will go quicker starting with warm tap water, than with icicles.

I talked to DH about it yesterday and he pointed out something I hadn't thought of. He said he can see why fermenting it would increase the protein, but said it would also reduce the calories. I should have thought of this myself since I brew my own beer: the bacteria that allow the fermentation process, do so by consuming the sugars. So if they are consuming the sugars, then it would reduce the overall caloric content. Not sure if this has been addressed on that other thread Karen?

I will have to look at Walmart for that Heinz brand ACV too, although now that I have the Bragg's and have started the mother in my gallon of Walmart brand ACV, it sounds like I won't really need the Heinz or Braggs again anyway.

So, why aren't trains banned? I mean, they're loud too.

HEChicken, so then what is the difference in the feed consumption between the production and heritage? Will the heritage bird consume less because they are laying less? I'm sorry you are torn about selling your house. That's hard stuff. I still drive by our old house and I still say I wish we had just moved the house out here. Somehow, we get attached to things. Maybe it's the good memories that make it hard. I want to try the fermented feed, and I also want to try making ACV and there isn't a natural one available here. I also want to try doing meal worms, hmmmm, I have a list and I'm not getting to it all. I will get there. It's nice to hear your good report though, that's motivating.

Congrats on the turkeys and Lav Orp roo - I bet you will really enjoy those turkey boys.

I had to LOL about the train - what a great observation! At our old house we were less than a mile from train tracks and it annoyed me how they would go through town at 2am blasting their horns non-stop. I can't see how that can possibly be necessary. And you're right - I'd take a rooster over a train any day.

Feed consumption probably isn't that different between production and heritage. Possibly slightly higher in the production since producing all those eggs takes a lot of calories but I'm not sure you'd notice a huge difference, especially because some of the production birds are small birds while the heritage birds are often larger overall.

I'm mad at Madge this morning. Ned gobbled as soon as I arrived and started to display for me and before he could even get the whole display going, Madge ran over and shut him down. What's up with that?

 

[chicken danz]

I watched the news last night and it still sounded like those picketing in Emporia still had hopes. Personally in this economy I think it was dumb. They were offered a guaranteed job and reduced pension if they stayed working. Going on strike was a sure way to loose their income. I am a pro union person but sometimes supporting the union just goes against being able to feed a family. I guess they are thinking if they sell the bakery that they can get their jobs back. There are other hostess plants closing but they didn't plan to close them all. Now that might happen.
Turkeys are awesome aren't they, Mammahen? I am so glad you got them cause I was for sure going to butcher the bad boy if I did. Since you just have the two boys they might not fight at all. Boys normally get along in general if there aren't any girls around. I love hearing them goooble. That is one of the best things about having strange people (to them) come here. The turkeys gobble at them.
I am having sellers regret already and my buyer isn't even here to pick up birds yet. I realized l had gathered up all my brahma offspring other than my original girls to sell. I love my brahmas. I really hate letting them go. If it weren't for the owl problems I wouldn't be doing it. I just have to be able to make sure everyone can be shut up at night. I don't have many of these fancy colored chicks so I won't have much to breed with either in the future. I guess I need to find a way to separate my group from the hen house and try to get some offspring. I've got to get some work done around here soon. It can't wait until spring.
I'm certainly cutting my own throat getting rid of so many birds cause I need the eggs they lay. But in the long run it's all part of my major plan to have egg layers and breeders separate. I guess I should have started getting more egg layers earlier so they would be producing while I reduce.
I had a friend write me and ask if I wanted to buy a peacock from her. It is a purple pied. Which means his chest is purple and his train is white or mostly white. They are awesome beauties. I really don't have a place for another male but I will probably take it. It is a little over my budget but just the same I know they need the money as well. I will just have to find a way to build some more pens. For a person who didn't want peacocks in the first place I certainly have gone overboard!!
I looked for ACV with mother in it earlier in Walmart in Emporia and Ottawa and neither place had it. Maybe if I make it to Topeka soon I can find a place that has it. I hadn't thought about the sugar being used up. I don't understand beer. How come it reduces calories but is still so fattening? I don't drink it so I have no idea. My son is a brew master and I could ask him but I don't want to listen to hours of beer talk. Pikeman is also a brew master so you could step in here and explain too.
What if you actually added some sugar to the mix to increase the fermentation?
I would be leary about taking calories in winter. I usually increase the corn in my feed mix in winter to add more fat. I like the idea of the fermentation for the obvious benefits though. I'm not sure I could do it on my scale but I think it would be excellent for fighting colds and other cold weather maladies. What if you don't get all the feed removed when you scoop it out. Is the older feed going to go bad or get moldy?
We got our booster a couple days ago and DH finally got it out of the box. I hope he gets it installed today. My internet and phone have just been barely functioning.
I haven't mentioned my chipmonks for a while. I have been working with them. At first all they did was hide. I now have them both taking food from my hands. They don't trust DH yet but are slowly getting used to him being around. They are spending more and more time out playing too. I just wish I could find a way to get that back enclosed deck built so there was room for them.
I worked all afternoon again and then started cleaning. I only got one bedroom done and part of this room. Already I see chick dust in here again. I've got ducks and some other eggs due to go into the hatcher today. I shut it down yesterday when I was cleaning so have to wait for it to get warm again before I move eggs.

 

[HEChicken]

I looked for ACV with mother in it earlier in Walmart in Emporia and Ottawa and neither place had it. Maybe if I make it to Topeka soon I can find a place that has it. I hadn't thought about the sugar being used up. I don't understand beer. How come it reduces calories but is still so fattening? I don't drink it so I have no idea. My son is a brew master and I could ask him but I don't want to listen to hours of beer talk. Pikeman is also a brew master so you could step in here and explain too.
What if you actually added some sugar to the mix to increase the fermentation?
I would be leary about taking calories in winter. I usually increase the corn in my feed mix in winter to add more fat. I like the idea of the fermentation for the obvious benefits though. I'm not sure I could do it on my scale but I think it would be excellent for fighting colds and other cold weather maladies. What if you don't get all the feed removed when you scoop it out. Is the older feed going to go bad or get moldy?

These are all good questions and hopefully Karen will pop in soon as she probably has a lot more insight into this, having kept up on the appropriate threads. I've looked in on them but some are over 200 pages and that is a LOT of reading to find the information.

I can answer on the beer/calories and that is to say that the original mix, before it is fermented would have MORE calories than the finished product. Because the sugars are eaten during the fermentation process, the resultant product is slightly lower in calories. However the bacteria don't eat all the ingredients so what is left does still have calories. The funny thing is, I am not a huge beer drinker either. I had it on my bucket list to learn how to brew beer because I was curious about the process itself. My dear DS, at only 9 years old, heard about the bucket list item in February, and all year plotted how to make that item on my bucket list be realized for me. He took my DH aside close to Christmas and together they researched what I would need to get started, and bought me a kit. However because I only drink the occasional beer in the summer and DH isn't much of a drinker either, I only brew 2-3 batches a year since that is all we can go through. He has been nagging me to do another batch soon though, and I plan to start it this week. Hmmm. Its Friday - that doesn't leave me much time, does it? I have a nice dark stout to make him for a winter beer so I guess I should get cracking on that instead of sitting at the computer

Regarding removing the old feed, I don't know if I'm doing it right but I had the same concerns about it going bad so this morning I dumped what was left in the bucket into my strainer to get all the old feed out and started a "fresh" batch, using only the remaining liquid from the original batch.

Congrats on the purple pied - that sounds gorgeous!

 

[PrairieChickens]

Prairie Chickens, that's really scary. There are some real creeps out there. I checked out your website on your profile, your little animals are adorable. I still don't like putting my name out online. I don't know if anyone has even noticed, but when I'm typing on the forum I always use usernames instead of real names even if I know them. I had an online friend do something bad and then she stalked me for a while, so I don't put my name on. I know I've relaxed more lately, maybe I shouldn't, but I do feel safe here.

As an added precaution, I don't use my real last name online, and I don't tell people what my real name is. That makes it a little harder still for someone to find me, and my Facebook name is not the same as my professional name, so people can't just look me up there after seeing my name on my website or listed on my merchandise. It all may seem very convoluted, but it's what I do to confuse any potential creepers while still having an online presence for my work. :3

I think it's so cool that you guys have incubators and can hatch your own eggs. I'd love to get an incubator but I just can't afford one right now.

 

[HEChicken]

I think it's so cool that you guys have incubators and can hatch your own eggs. I'd love to get an incubator but I just can't afford one right now.

They're not that hard to make. I looked into them a few years ago and also thought they were pretty pricey for the small amount of hatching I would be doing. So I researched how to make them (there are some great examples on here under the coops section, where there is a sub-section for incubators).

I was fortunate that as I also keep herps, I already had some of the supplies I needed, like a thermostat, and for the heat source, instead of using light bulbs, I decided to use a heat mat, since I already had one. For the main case, I heard that Omaha Steaks coolers are superior due to the thickness of the styrofoam. We don't order from there but I thought surely someone nearby would, so I asked on Freecycle if anyone had one they didn't need and was gifted with two. I also got a CPU on Freecycle so I could use the fan, but it turns out the reason the person no longer needed the CPU was....the fan didn't work. So I scrapped that and did purchase a fan at Atwoods. Since it is a fan designed for the LG incubators, it was a no-brainer to use it in my incubator. Add some bowls for water and a tray fashioned out of hardware cloth to sit above the water bowls so the chicks can't fall in the water and voila - ready to go. I've had great hatches in it from my own eggs, and some poor hatches from shipped eggs but I love hatching - it is such a thrill to see those little chicks pop out of those eggs.

 

[PrairieChickens]

If I was more experienced, I would just build one. As of right now I would be completely overwhelmed by the process since my skills at making things are directed towards things like stuffed animals and greeting cards. x_x

 

[Deerfield Acres]

Hey guys! Getting caught up again...

Karen-SO glad you are starting to mend. That was a long bug to fight! How do you feed the fermented feed? In a bowl separately and do you keep the regular dry food out still or just feed a daily ration of fermented feed? Are you using a commercial chicken feed? Sorry for all the questions, I am curious.
Oh no, Medawinks, I am thinking of you and your little girl tonight and hoping she is going to make a speedy recovery. Such a tough cookie that girl!

Bummer on the pumpkins!

When we were figuring out how much to ferment, we kept dry food out also. Now, we have it down and feed once a day. I'm using Nutrena's All Flock for the chickens and ducks and Chick Starter for the younger birds. Questions are not a problem.

My barn isn't heated, does the fermenting work in these cold temps? I sure don't want to bring feed in the house to get it warm enough to ferment. I sprout wheat in the house in the winter. I have a basement window that allows light in just right, but there's no smell.

Glad to hear NED is displaying, he must be doing much better!

Glad your furnace is running! That's a very efficient furnace & should be much cheaper to run on propane than running it on electric heat all winter. The savings on electric bill should help offset the cost of calling out a tech, glad you got a tech that knew how to install it correctly.

I ferment in the house, don't think it would work outside in the cold. The kids told me the fermenting feed smelled when we first started it but I was sick and couldn't smell anything. I can smell it now but if you can tolerate sourdough starter you can tolerate this. To me it smells similar -- not awful. But that's me.

What a fantastic idea to pour Braggs into the cheap Walmart Gallon ACV!!!!! I'm going to try that! Brilliant!!!! This process sounds like a really tedious process. I already have so much to do around here, I don't know if this is something I want to do, even though it sounds like a really great idea! Where did you get your 5 gallon bucket? I don't have one of those, but I think I've seen them at Lowes? So do you just put the wet food with the AVC over dry food when you put it out to feed? Or are you mixing up an entire barrel of 5 gallons of feed?

Danz, that is a really scary story - and yours too Hawkeye. Thankfully, I don't have one to compare.

Karen, I started to ferment some feed today and I think I overestimated the amount of feed it would take. I knew the pellets would swell and take up the water and thought I added enough water to counter that but went to check on it a few hours later and it was mound of damp feed but no visible water. I added more water - hope that was appropriate. Please tell me there was a learning curve for you, as well, so I don't feel so bad. I also realized that what I thought was a conservative amount of feed is probably more than they will eat in a day so....I guess it is okay to leave some fermenting until the next day, right? Just add a little more feed and water and ACV? I can already smell that it is fermenting though - it is a lovely aroma.

I had quite the learning curve! When I came back and checked on a batch, I found it had soaked up all the water several times, just add some lukewarm water, stir, and it will be fine. It is fine to leave it fermenting for the next day. It's at it's best when it bubbles when you stir it, so you may see some of that really good bubble action. I don't mind the smell of it either. I have four teenagers who have stopped complaining of the smell and have gotten used to it, so I think it's really not that bad or they wouldn't be shy about saying so. That's my theory, anyway!

 

[Deerfield Acres]

I have it set up in the feed-room of my coop which is definitely NOT heated. What I gathered from Karen's post is that it takes from 6-24 hours depending on whether or not it is in a heated area so I just figured this time of year it would go closer to the 24-hour time frame. However that said, even after only 3-4 hours, I could smell it starting to ferment.

I bought a gallon of the cheap Walmart ACV today, per Karen's recommendation. I poured off a cup of the cheap ACV, then poured a cup of the Bragg's ACV into the gallon and then wondered what to do with the cup of cheap ACV. Then I felt really dumb!!! If one cup of ACV can grow the mother in a whole gallon of ACV, then adding the cup of cheap ACV back into the Braggs would surely allow the mother to grow in it too, right? (Please tell me I'm right.) So that's what I did and I hope I didn't just ruin the rest of the bottle of Braggs.

That's GREAT to know, HEChicken. I think I'll move mine to the garage cause it's taking up space in the kitchen. That is great it started to ferment so quickly! I laughed about your question of putting the ACV into the Braggs. I NEVER even considered it. I was saving my left over for the next gallon of ACV. I'll remedy that today. Look how much I learned from you today! That's what is so awesome about this place. I haven't seen the lower calorie issue addressed but then I'm a notorious speed reader with a short attention span. From what I've read, the birds start out consuming lots of the fermented feed and then slow down after several weeks. Mine are still gobbling it like piglets. So we'll see how that goes.

I'm not finding the fermenting to be particularly more time-consuming - I have just incorporated it into the rest of my chores down at the coop, so we'll see how it goes as I continue. I just started my second batch this morning. So funny that I started with the amount I thought they would eat in one day and it lasted two full days. Perhaps that is because they are eating less or perhaps because when it swells up with water, they feel fuller sooner. Either way I'm not complaining. They do love it and go ape over it when I put it out for them.

Starting the second batch, I had to come up to the house to get the cup of ACV so as long as I was in the kitchen, I went ahead and filled a gallon jug with warm water. It will ferment in cool water but the water at the coop this morning had icicles in it since it got down to 29 here last night so I figured the fermentation will go quicker starting with warm tap water, than with icicles.

I talked to DH about it yesterday and he pointed out something I hadn't thought of. He said he can see why fermenting it would increase the protein, but said it would also reduce the calories. I should have thought of this myself since I brew my own beer: the bacteria that allow the fermentation process, do so by consuming the sugars. So if they are consuming the sugars, then it would reduce the overall caloric content. Not sure if this has been addressed on that other thread Karen?

I will have to look at Walmart for that Heinz brand ACV too, although now that I have the Bragg's and have started the mother in my gallon of Walmart brand ACV, it sounds like I won't really need the Heinz or Braggs again anyway.

I'm thinking I won't have to buy anymore Braggs now, too. I'll just keep passing along the "mothered" ACV to the "non-mothered". Heather, I've noticed a difference in how shiny the birds feathers are and I've decided it's not my imagination at all. Their combs are brighter red, also. They really do look healthier overall.