Consolidated Kansas

[cherwill]

We were leaving my SIL's (in town) last night and DH saw a fox. They'd lost a duck to a fox last year.

Whenever I walk past the kitchen door, and frequently when I'm just doing things in the kitchen, I look out at the chickens. This morning I happened to look out and see two of the chickens flapping around like they were scared of something. I opened the door to get a better look, and saw a fox in the alley, standing right at the fence and staring at the chickens. I went out and the fox wasn't the least bit worried about me. I banged on the fence and it trotted down the alley. By then, all the chickens were back in the coop, so DH just closed the door on them. I guess we won't let them out until it's fully light outside.

What was interesting is that the chickens weren't making any noise. If they see a cat, they sound the alarm. Why not with a fox?

We've had foxes in town for many years, but this is the first time I've seen one in our neighborhood. I always figured there were so many dogs on our block that the foxes didn't like it.

 

[HEChicken]

Heather she originally fell in love with an albino (pink) corn snake. With an endorsement like that she might get one of them. I really wanted to feed frozen too, and heard they were difficult to switch over, but I didn't realize it might be impossible.

If she ever wants to come over and visit mine, just give me a call.

HEChicken, I am really upset. I went out to feed and water and my RP Tom is NOT doing well.

He's been just fine but he was just standing there like he was in a daze instead of strutting and stuff. I put wormer in his water and gave him a dose of metronidazole and now he is just laying there with his eyes closed. I picked him up and set him in the shelter and he had no fight left in him. He's been perfectly fine. I noticed yellow diarrhea in the pen. Not a good sign. Not sure what it is but now I'm afraid all the other turkeys might come down ill. Heart breaking! I did give both the girls a half doze of metronidazole as well to be safe. I know I have a couple eggs that are fertile but I sure don't want to loose him now that the girls are laying. I figured out which one laid yesterday and I don't know if one or both of them are.
I also found another pullet egg in one of pens where I had put the 5-6 months old birds. At least this one I understand but have no idea who laid it.
This has NOT been a good week bird wise. I wish I knew what to do to save this guy.

Oh no, oh no, oh no - I am devastated to hear this news. I almost hate to ask how he is doing this morning. I had to go help a friend yesterday afternoon for what was supposed to be a couple of hours but one problem led to another and it was late before I got back so I didn't get this news until this morning. Turkeys seem to be at the same time both strong and fragile. My original Tom (Ned) went downhill shortly after I got him. His symptom was lethargy. He didn't strut or gobble and spent most of his day just sitting in one place. When he did move, it would be to walk to a new location and sit down again like he was exhausted from the effort. At that time I was so new to turkeys I had no idea what was wrong. That was when I read up on Ivermectin in the water for the first time and decided to worm the chickens. It never even occurred to me it was worms causing Ned's symptoms but fortunately the Ivermectin treated the whole flock. A day after I started it, he was at the feeder eating like there was no tomorrow and he never looked back again after that. Within a week he was strutting and gobbling like crazy and he went on to father many, many offspring. Unfortunately he died in 2013 and it was sudden like you are describing. One day he didn't look good and that night I lay in bed worrying about him and decided to start him on Ivermectin first thing in the morning "just in case" but in the morning I found him dead.

I will be anxiously waiting for news and hope against hope that your tom is looking better this morning.

We are stressed to the max.
been dealing with county and other morons rewriting codes in our area just to screw us out of our birds.
I put up one hell of a fight, and so far its been quite for about 6 weeks

Wouldn't you be grandfathered in?

Well I only have a pair at present of the Wheaten Ameraucanas, I've been trying for a year to raise some more hens to add to the flock, but no luck so far.

Danz, I'm sorry to say those sound like Blackhead symptoms. That is what killed my first RP tom I had, he got sick & died so fast I didn't really have time to figure out what he had & then by the time he did I was able to get the meds & treat the hens so they didn't get it. I'm not sure if that is what my RP hen died from, she really didn't seem the same as the tom. Unfortunately if the tom is that sick I doubt he will drink anything & I don't know how long it takes that med to take effect either. That particular disease only can be treated with that one drug.

I really like the Wheatens. They make a different sound than any of my other hens - it is very distinctive and I know where they are just by listening. It occurred to me yesterday that it may not be one of them laying the new green egg. I have a pullet I hatched last year who is mixed but looks like an EE with ear muffs etc. Looking at her, I could always imagine her laying colored eggs, and she, like the Wheatens, hangs out in the area where I've been finding the new green egg. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it is her laying it and that way I still have two chances for blue eggs from the Wheatens. Whoever it is has finally figured out the process and built herself a little nest in the hay wall, where I found the egg yesterday. Hopefully she returns to it regularly so I don't have to hunt around the sheep pen looking for wherever it dropped.

I don't think I had ever heard that your first tom died of Blackhead. Is blindness a symptom of blackhead? I should probably read up on that ailment since I know so little about it - I know my understanding was that you either have it in your area or you don't. If you do, turkeys are most likely to succumb to it. Beyond that, I don't even know what symptoms to look for.

We were leaving my SIL's (in town) last night and DH saw a fox. They'd lost a duck to a fox last year.

Whenever I walk past the kitchen door, and frequently when I'm just doing things in the kitchen, I look out at the chickens. This morning I happened to look out and see two of the chickens flapping around like they were scared of something. I opened the door to get a better look, and saw a fox in the alley, standing right at the fence and staring at the chickens. I went out and the fox wasn't the least bit worried about me. I banged on the fence and it trotted down the alley. By then, all the chickens were back in the coop, so DH just closed the door on them. I guess we won't let them out until it's fully light outside.

What was interesting is that the chickens weren't making any noise. If they see a cat, they sound the alarm. Why not with a fox?

We've had foxes in town for many years, but this is the first time I've seen one in our neighborhood. I always figured there were so many dogs on our block that the foxes didn't like it.

Wow Cherwill - so glad you were there. Foxes really are very non-fearful of humans - that has been my experience with them too. As to why the chickens didn't alert, I can't answer, because I'm surprised at that myself. When my chickens were being hunted by the fox in 2012, most went into hiding and were very quiet but a couple of flock leaders were out in front singing the egg song like crazy but in a sort of desperate, anxious way. I don't know how much of that was because I was out there with them and they were trying to communicate with me that they had a visual on it, and how much they would have done even if I weren't there with them, since it would seem that quietly hiding would be a better defense than announcing their presence by making a racket.

HEChicken, I'm glad processing went well, I understand what you're saying about it being easier to process one that causes problems. I will I'm sure have a few extra cockerels to do something with after I grow some of these chicks out of various breeds. I can tell right away with the Cream Legbars, but at the same time I need to grow them out to choose which ones I want to keep for breeding stock, so I will have some extras later on. I can't tell on the lavender Orps yet since they aren't showing any bigger combs or red combs as of yet. Wouldn't it be nice if all of the breeds were sex linked & we could always know right away which were cockerels.

HEChicken that BR rooster I have is still growing, he just seems so clumsy, because I guess he hasn't grown into his big feet yet. Those two little pullets I got from you are starting to really grow now, one is bigger than the other one.

Yeah, my DH came in while I was skinning and said "Frank does good work". He couldn't believe how big this guy was! He just barely fit into my chicken cone and I half thought I might have to go get the turkey cone to put him in. Considering that my huge ducks fit in the chicken cone, that is really saying something. Once he was skinned, I almost couldn't get him in the crockpot. If it didn't have a lid that latches down, it never would have worked. My old crockpot, the lid just sat on top and in that, the lid would have been sitting askew for the first few hours of cooking.

Trish, has your BR cockerel's attitude improved? And have you processed any since we did the ones at your place that day?

I can't remember who it was who commented on the sex link discussion but I just wanted to say that in the chicken world, it seems there is always something new to learn. I personally am fascinated by learning more about breeding - what works and what doesn't. I found that link I posted to be some of the best sex link information I've ever read. Some people get so into genetics discussions that they wind up using a lot of technical language and information and lose me, since I don't have a background in genetics and can't follow a really technical discussion. However the person who wrote that article I linked to, kept in mind that not all audiences have a genetics background and he stuck to explaining it in a way that I could follow it and understand it better. I really liked his charts too, as they made it easier to figure out what combinations will work and what won't. And it helped to have some of the photos as well. I found it interesting that some combinations will produce sex linked chicks that are obvious at hatch - i.e. chicks will either be red or white - whereas others you will have to look closer. The chicks will all be chipmunks but the males will have one color while the females will have another, at just one point on their body. Fascinating!

Trish, did you get a chance to go back and review that? I think it was the latter that will result from your NH/Wyandotte cross - i.e., the chicks will all be chipmunk but you will still be able to differentiate the males from females by looking closely.

 

[KsKingBee]

Was it HEchicken that had the theory of holding a chick on its back and watch the legs to determine the sex? I think if I remember right that the legs will come up in a defensive position to mean male and stretched out for female?

 

[milomac]

keep in mind a fox is just as likely in the day as at night

 

[chicken danz]

We were leaving my SIL's (in town) last night and DH saw a fox. They'd lost a duck to a fox last year.

Whenever I walk past the kitchen door, and frequently when I'm just doing things in the kitchen, I look out at the chickens. This morning I happened to look out and see two of the chickens flapping around like they were scared of something. I opened the door to get a better look, and saw a fox in the alley, standing right at the fence and staring at the chickens. I went out and the fox wasn't the least bit worried about me. I banged on the fence and it trotted down the alley. By then, all the chickens were back in the coop, so DH just closed the door on them. I guess we won't let them out until it's fully light outside.

What was interesting is that the chickens weren't making any noise. If they see a cat, they sound the alarm. Why not with a fox?

We've had foxes in town for many years, but this is the first time I've seen one in our neighborhood. I always figured there were so many dogs on our block that the foxes didn't like it.

Cherwill, Fox will hunt in the day time so I'd made sure those girls are penned really safely. Any chance you could set a trap? It's about time for the females to move into the cities to start having young. I would almost bet it's a female and she'd probably looking for a den and a place to get food. They are very intelligent animals. If you could trap her and don't want to cull her you could relocate her out in the country. At least if she went back to town maybe she'd go somewhere else.

If she ever wants to come over and visit mine, just give me a call.

Oh no, oh no, oh no - I am devastated to hear this news. I almost hate to ask how he is doing this morning. I had to go help a friend yesterday afternoon for what was supposed to be a couple of hours but one problem led to another and it was late before I got back so I didn't get this news until this morning. Turkeys seem to be at the same time both strong and fragile. My original Tom (Ned) went downhill shortly after I got him. His symptom was lethargy. He didn't strut or gobble and spent most of his day just sitting in one place. When he did move, it would be to walk to a new location and sit down again like he was exhausted from the effort. At that time I was so new to turkeys I had no idea what was wrong. That was when I read up on Ivermectin in the water for the first time and decided to worm the chickens. It never even occurred to me it was worms causing Ned's symptoms but fortunately the Ivermectin treated the whole flock. A day after I started it, he was at the feeder eating like there was no tomorrow and he never looked back again after that. Within a week he was strutting and gobbling like crazy and he went on to father many, many offspring. Unfortunately he died in 2013 and it was sudden like you are describing. One day he didn't look good and that night I lay in bed worrying about him and decided to start him on Ivermectin first thing in the morning "just in case" but in the morning I found him dead.

I will be anxiously waiting for news and hope against hope that your tom is looking better this morning.


I don't think I had ever heard that your first tom died of Blackhead. Is blindness a symptom of blackhead? I should probably read up on that ailment since I know so little about it - I know my understanding was that you either have it in your area or you don't. If you do, turkeys are most likely to succumb to it. Beyond that, I don't even know what symptoms to look for.
Well he is gone this morning. I'm pretty sad. I wish I had caught it in time. I'm going to go ahead and treat the girls like they've been infected just to make sure. I really wasn't aware of the symptoms myself but I spent a load of time reading yesterday. I immediately knew what was wrong with him though because I saw this one spot of yellow diarrhea and I remembered when Deerfield lost her "Tookey" reading about the yellow diarrhea. It is caused when the liver stops functioning. Basically they just get lethargic and stand or sit and get droopy, sometimes have ruffled feathers (his weren't), and act depressed. Their eyes are fine. It's my understanding the "black head" only occurs if their breathing is effected. His was not. They also drink a lot which I hadn't noticed. He was fine the day before. Maybe not strutting as much as usual. But in a matter of hours he went from walking around to completely dead. I'm going to necropsy him later just so I know what it looks like inside. Then I'm burning the remains. Cold won't kill the protozoan, but heat will.
Turkeys are usually infected by eating an earth worm who has picked up the protozoan. I've noticed we have tons of earth worms.They must thrive in the stuff left over from feeding the birds. I hate to but I think I am going to treat the pens with something that will kill the worms. I read that the protozoan die quickly when the host dies so it seems the best defense short of saturating the ground with gasoline and torching the entire place.
I'm going to treat the two girls like they were infected but I'm sure they are fine. Then I think I'll sell them. It seems such a shame when I have fertile eggs in my incubator! And I'm going to find some medicated turkey feed and start feeding the turkeys that. I had read last year that putting cayenne pepper in their food would keep turkeys from getting black head. I bought 5 pounds of the stuff. Do you have any idea how much 5 pounds of cayenne is? Anyway I put it in for awhile but it seems like I was always getting it rubbed in my eyes and my nose so I quit. Needless to say all of them got cayenne yesterday.
I really don't want to get rid of my turkeys. I hope this was an isolated incident and he just ate the wrong earth worm. But there won't ever be turkeys in that particular pen again.
Yeah, my DH came in while I was skinning and said "Frank does good work". He couldn't believe how big this guy was! He just barely fit into my chicken cone and I half thought I might have to go get the turkey cone to put him in. Considering that my huge ducks fit in the chicken cone, that is really saying something. Once he was skinned, I almost couldn't get him in the crockpot. If it didn't have a lid that latches down, it never would have worked. My old crockpot, the lid just sat on top and in that, the lid would have been sitting askew for the first few hours of cooking.
I have this monster bird out there I need to butcher. I decided he was so huge I was going to eat him myself rather than sell him to someone else. He came from Frank's mixed eggs. He is such a sweet boy I hate to kill him now. Heaven knows what he is, maybe part Jersey Giant. He even comes when I call "Rooster". Makes it hard to eat those guys. But I am still going to save him for myself. I may have to have someone else kill him for me though.
Trish, has your BR cockerel's attitude improved? And have you processed any since we did the ones at your place that day?

I can't remember who it was who commented on the sex link discussion but I just wanted to say that in the chicken world, it seems there is always something new to learn. I personally am fascinated by learning more about breeding - what works and what doesn't. I found that link I posted to be some of the best sex link information I've ever read. Some people get so into genetics discussions that they wind up using a lot of technical language and information and lose me, since I don't have a background in genetics and can't follow a really technical discussion. However the person who wrote that article I linked to, kept in mind that not all audiences have a genetics background and he stuck to explaining it in a way that I could follow it and understand it better. I really liked his charts too, as they made it easier to figure out what combinations will work and what won't. And it helped to have some of the photos as well. I found it interesting that some combinations will produce sex linked chicks that are obvious at hatch - i.e. chicks will either be red or white - whereas others you will have to look closer. The chicks will all be chipmunks but the males will have one color while the females will have another, at just one point on their body. Fascinating!

That was a very informative article. I bookmarked it for later. I don't know if I'll try the sex links again or not. I may later this year if I decide I need some more layers. Right now I need to concentrate on getting housing and pens for breeds and colors. I do like to have hens staggered about every 6 months in age so I always have some good layers. But rather than market them like I originally planned I'll probably just breed a few for myself.

 

[chicken danz]

I don't remember reading that here KKB, but my daughter told me if you pick a young chick up by the head, the roosters will draw their legs up and the hens will let them dangle. I don't think I'd take that info to the bank though. If you experiment and it works out let me know!

 

[cherwill]

keep in mind a fox is just as likely in the day as at night

Yes, but here in town, they're mostly spotted around dawn or dusk. It's not foolproof, but I can't go out there every 15 minutes (even though I DO keep checking!) and I can't shoot at it in town.

 

[Farmboy1200]

hi

 

[cherwill]

Cherwill, Fox will hunt in the day time so I'd made sure those girls are penned really safely. Any chance you could set a trap? It's about time for the females to move into the cities to start having young. I would almost bet it's a female and she'd probably looking for a den and a place to get food. They are very intelligent animals. If you could trap her and don't want to cull her you could relocate her out in the country. At least if she went back to town maybe she'd go somewhere else.

I'll talk to DH about trapping and what our options are. Looks like we have an increase in fox again, so I don't know if it would make a big difference or not, but it might be worth trying.

 

[HEChicken]

Was it HEchicken that had the theory of holding a chick on its back and watch the legs to determine the sex? I think if I remember right that the legs will come up in a defensive position to mean male and stretched out for female?

Nope - not me.

Cherwill, Fox will hunt in the day time so I'd made sure those girls are penned really safely. Any chance you could set a trap? It's about time for the females to move into the cities to start having young. I would almost bet it's a female and she'd probably looking for a den and a place to get food. They are very intelligent animals. If you could trap her and don't want to cull her you could relocate her out in the country. At least if she went back to town maybe she'd go somewhere else.

Check into the law before you relocate any wild animal - it is almost always illegal and it generally means death to the animal you are relocating in addition. Wild animals typically live in a territory and a new animal being dumped into an existing animal's territory will either be attacked - and the fight is to the death - or will starve to death as it will not be permitted to hunt in that territory. It can't move on because bordering that territory will be territory guarded by another animal.

Another reason it is not a good idea to relocate them is generally it is just passing the problem onto someone else. Even in the country there are enough people living that is is almost impossible to find a place that truly will not impact anyone - and typically country people are more likely to be keeping poultry and other livestock. Plunking a fox down even in what seems like a remote area, is most likely just going to mean that country person will have livestock losses to the animal - especially since it can't easily hunt the local wildlife due to its competitors.

Foxes are notoriously difficult to trap because they are so intelligent but if you do manage to trap one and can't shoot it in the trap, you should call Animal Control. They will come and get it and take care of it for you.

Danz, I am devastated for you at the loss of your turkey and I so hope the hens are not also affected. I think you said the eggs are developing? I am glad for you that at least you do have the next generation, and the hens next week or so of eggs will likely also be fertile so you can hatch those as well. What a sad reminder this is of how fragile life really is and how fast they can go.