Consolidated Kansas

[chicken danz]

Mike,
I'm not an angry person. I was just defending myself. Yes I have lots of chickens, but change my roosters at twice a year. I have actually paid to have them shipped from out of state just to be sure I can get a new blood lines. I too have a background in biology and I don't in-breed anything. I've seen the genetic effects from inbreeding.
I love animals. They are therapy to me. I had to retire from my career about a year ago because of a degenerative disease. Family? My husband is very supportive. Needless to say he has spent the majority of his days off for the past year, building more buildings. I have 5 children and 5 grandchildren. Yes they are all mine. My kids/ grand kids love leaving the city and coming to the country to 'bond with the chickens' as my daughter in law calls it. They all love the home grown eggs and have named a few chickens themselves.
Hubby calls me the pied piper because when I walk out the door the whole flock comes running. My dogs work but are huge spoiled babies.
I do see your point. It is valid. Maybe just stated a little gruffly.
Let's truce and go on to enjoy another God given day with our little two legged friends.

 

[Katy]

Just a note as far as in-breeding chickens. There are some breeders who have had closed flocks without any new blood being brought for decades and believe that it's better not to mix up different blood lines.

 

[chicken danz]

On a lighter note the big hatcher is working great even with my humidity sticking at about 61%. I had 4 ducks, one pheasant, one guinea, and 5 chicks that hatched in there over night.

 

[ChooksChick]

Quote:
I've edited this post with a bit of information for clarification, as some jumping to conclusions seems to have upset some folks. We can't all think exactly the same way, but we can show respect for one another and try to learn from others' experiences. I, for one, will not be making personal attacks or lack compassion for what I may not understand behind the scenes. I will leave my post intact except for what has been added for clarification.

OOOOooo!!Let's talk about genetics!! You guys know how much I love that!!

I deliberately have flocks that are made up of different gene pools, and if I keep stock to breed back, I DO NOT breed back brother to sister. The only exception will be in the case of the Silkied Ameraucanas, simply because in the mix of males and females in this group that I received from another breeder (which you can read about here there is a 75% chance of some of them only being 1/2 related, but no way of knowing for sure. There is a scarcity of them, but Julie has tried to get the few into others' hands for improvement and since they developed from a spontaneous mutation, which she cannot claim, as she hatched the originals from eggs she got from ebay, there must be some inbreeding to perpetuate the unique feature. I have a cock from John Blehm stock that will be the patriarch of the new line, then a hen from Dak's eggs that came from another show line of Ameraucanas altogether. The Blehm cock will be bred to the females, Dak's hen (when it grows up) will be bred to the males.

In chickens, it is scientifically accepted to line-breed: that is, breed back son to mother or father to daughter. It is frowned upon to breed brother to sister because things are known to crop up. One example of an unknown possibility is this: Since relatively is still known about how scissor-beak is triggered, or whether it's genetic predisposition AND a trigger, etc., it's always a better choice to seek genetic diversity. Unfortunately, if you're dealing with a small pool of genes, you might have to outcross to a different, similar breed and then weed out undesired qualities. This is where I am on some other lines. There is excellent documentation to show that abnormalities occur during incubation, and one member had a heat spike during the first few days recently. She stabilized and many hatched...but most had no eyes. This is only to say we are still learning about malformations and I, too, wish to keep diversity in play.

While keeping OCD records on these birds to keep lines straight, I am still somewhat of a nut. They nearly all have names, and I remember most of them. I use a naming convention for them, so it's easier to remember. My Black Orps are nearly all from a particular Jane Austen book. My French Black Copper Marans are all named from Les Miserables. My Lakenvelders were all from Hunchback of Notre Dame, as my very first line, which were all hatched from another breeder, produced a boy with a corkscrew neck, Quasimodo. He was loved and pampered right up until he couldn't any longer eat. He had his own flock of pullets and had a wonderful life up to about a year old, then he got stiffer in the neck and couldn't function correctly. I sobbed when I had to ask my DH to euthanize him. I preened him myself because he couldn't manage the job, always. I think I had a hard time after that- I neglected the Laks a bit because it made me sad.

These little things are wonderful and some are incredibly intelligent. Some are not. I definitely have a respect for them that extends well beyond what I ever thought I would, and my roo, Professor, was an exceptional animal that had a family position as high as our dogs and cat. He was tube-fed in the crop several times a day for years. No vacations, no matter how sick I was, or tired, etc., the boy still needed to be fed, and it was a dicey process that no one else had the guts to try. When we went to Thanksgiving for the first time in years, we did have him lodged at the vet's, and I taught the vet tech how to hold the red tube so that Professor would go after it like a snake. He swallowed it himself. He was happy and never resisted feeding, but rather loved it! If he saw the tube when he was in the house (which was often) would jump up and chase the tube when he was full! He was huge, healthy, and happy! The crop is only one molecule thick and risked being punctured with every feeding. Professor came when called, and I understood his language. He used a specific cluck to name family members, and it was consistent. The big dog had a series of clucks different from the little dog, different from a stray big dog. He was well loved! When he passed we lost a little bit of our hearts and he's got a special spot in the yard with a big, round stone. No unloved rooster could last 2 days without a lower beak, and he went years. My family thinks of it as hoarding because I didn't just put a bird like that down...but I know it's because I had already established a relationship and mutual respect was well underway. THAT'S what makes folks think we're bonkers.

I know you like to keep us thinking, Mike, and I respect the way you do things. I also feel that the way I do things is important, and just because I sell eggs doesn't mean I have less feeling or respect for the birds- it's that I love them so much I've chosen to do this for a meager living so I can spend more time with them, rather than finding another job like the one I had before which took all of my time and made me miserable. I would love to not have to make money from them, but I have a family to feed, and I'm barely managing that.

I think a part of my soul would die if I had to give up my flocks and go back to Corporate America. I also think some very interesting projects that folks are excited about would disappear and some amazing and unique birds wouldn't be out there for folks to have, because I enjoy fostering new colors/patterns/etc. with the wonderful ingredients God has given us for creative diversity. I feel this is a good thing- that I can do this and make a scant amount of money.

In other news, the project I have been working on to make a less grotesque meat bird is looking very promising, and I'm hoping to refine it a bit more soon. I've made a foraging, fast-growing, cushion-combed dual-purpose bird with good egg-laying potential. The hybrid vigor seems to be exactly as I'd hoped, and I think they'll dress out at 5+# at 16 weeks, maybe sooner. We'll know by late June if it might be sooner...perhaps by then I'll have figured out who will process them for me, since I don't think I could unless my daughters' lives depended on it.

 

[chicken danz]

Renee,
You're a woman after my own heart. When I've had chicks that can't stand up or that are born weak I don't just leave them to die. I've tried and I just can't do it. I've dropper fed many and made props for them so they can stay upright. Most don't pull through, but at least I can sleep at night knowing I've made their short lives as pleasant as possible. I've brought in full grown birds and nursed them back to health when they were injured. I have a "sick pen" tractor which I'm keeping a couple hens in that had their sides ripped open by roos. One pheasant I am breeding with this year is named is Crip. He broke his back when he was only a week or two old and stands like a vulture. Instead of disposing of him because he wasn't perfect any more, he became the stud master over 8 hens. Other than his back injury he is a beautiful bird.
My Serama chicks all seem prone to pasty butt. I sit in front of their brooder every day and pick poop off their behinds. It saves their little lives so I don't mind doing it.
My sister said I talk to my birds like you would talk to a child. And I swear many of them understand. I have one little black over white polish hen that hides under the nest boxes to keep the roosters away. I ask her to come out and see me and she does. She loves to be held and coos and talks to me while I carry her around.
I spent 40 years in the corporate life suffering from high blood pressure, and hating to get up in the morning. Now I have perfect blood pressure and and am beyond happy.
Yeah some people think I am crazy but I really don't care. Life and nature are my passion. These wonderful creatures not only are great companions but they provide food and Lord knows, lots of entertainment.

 

[KansasBoy]

 

[1idwillie]

Quote:

 

[ChooksChick]

Ummm...I meant in this particular group the way that the original breeder, Julie had themales and females put together, silly!

There were a bunch of unrelated males in the pen and all of the related females' ratio equated to a 75% chance that the chicks she sent me were unrelated!!! Good heavens...do you really think I'm that confused?

I didn't even read but that first part. I have to go get my kids from career day at the hospital, but I'll decide whether to respond when I get back and read the rest. Sheesh! Mountains...molehills...

 

[chicken danz]

Now that we have our biology lesson of the day, lets try to remember that corkscrew necks, awry tail feathers, minute lower beaks etc can all be the results of many other things beyond genetics. Think of human children born with down's syndrome, spina bifida, retardation caused by having a cord wrapped around their necks, etc. None of these things have to come from poor genetics or in-breeding.
Examples of things that have been proven to be genetic are chemical imbalances that make people fly into rages and irrational thinking..... just sayin'

 

[Myabcs3]

Hey, are we still in Kansas anymore? I think I just saw some flying monkeys...