Consolidated Kansas

[Deerfield Acres]

KarenS, I just put my other set of Swedish Flower Hen eggs into the hatcher today. I candled them before putting them in there & there were 13 that looked promising so we'll see what happens in a few days. Maybe I will get some more with crests in this batch. Let me know how your eggs do.

Will do. I put my eggs in on the 7th. I didn't candle, I just put them in there and decided to wait until the 10th to see what was up at that point. Glad you caught your little escapee!

 

[chicken danz]

Josie like I said different states have different rules. She may be able to legally ship out of her state but she may not be able to ship into the some states. Kansas for instance doesn't legally allow any eggs or birds to be shipped in without PT test papers. It happens but it's not legal. The PO doesn't take responsibility for enforcing the law so it slips through the cracks all the time. In Oklahoma for instance, their testing is cheaper and easier to get done but they are very strict about bringing any bird of any kind in from out of state without the correct forms. Again it happens but you had better not get caught doing it.
I sold to some people in Oklahoma and had to have separate test papers for those birds that were one within 30 days of when they crossed the state line.
I personally would like to see the rules become a little more stringent. There have been some recent incidents of positive tests in the country and it worries me a lot. I want to feel comfortable if I do happen to buy a bird or eggs from someone else to know I am not going to infect my flock in the process.
It's a time bomb thing with more and more back yard flocks. The hatcheries are monitored and inspected, but depending on how closely a state keeps these inspections, even they could sell infected chicks, especially those that contract out to other entities to purchase chicks rather than hatching all of their own.
There is no profit in the program so it could easily loose funding in the government cutbacks. Scary thing

 

[HEChicken]

I hope you all will forgive me if I have a lot of LGD questions in the next few weeks.

A little background. We have two dogs, both about 40lb. The younger one has been teaching the older, emotionally scarred (she came that way, long story, won't get into it) dog to play, with some success. Especially since we've been at the new place, we've noticed the older dog not only playing more but occasionally even originating a play session.

Enter Tory. Tory is a working dog, right? So tonight I decided to let her off the tether and see how she'd do. As soon as I released her, she took off - playing with the younger dog. The two of them galloped all over the yard and had the best time. The younger dog is 20 months, Tory is 16 months so they are well matched. Tory will never be as agile or quick due to her size but held her own. It was fun to watch them. But....since she is here to work, is it okay to let her play? I know that sounds awful, but I would hate to distract her from her duties. At night my dogs, who are outside during the day are put up so that they won't roam, bark etc. Tory is tethered tonight but ultimately the goal is to have her patrolling the property at night. So the other dogs won't be there to distract her at night so I'm thinking let them have a little fun in the evenings if they want to?

And, second question. I went to feed and wasn't sure whether to feed her with the other dogs or apart. She is showing no signs of food aggression so far. Our younger dog is dominant and so far Tory is being respectful/submissive to both of the existing dogs. I wound up filling the three bowls and setting them down in a line, each bowl about 6' from the next. That seemed to work - they all got down to business and licked the bowls clean. But should I be feeding her separately?

Tonight while I was out with her on leash, a jogger jogged past. Tory barked at him. Good dog! Although she is primarily an LGD, I don't mind AT ALL if she also alerts to things that might be a danger to a human.

 

[JosieChick]

I hope you all will forgive me if I have a lot of LGD questions in the next few weeks.

A little background. We have two dogs, both about 40lb. The younger one has been teaching the older, emotionally scarred (she came that way, long story, won't get into it) dog to play, with some success. Especially since we've been at the new place, we've noticed the older dog not only playing more but occasionally even originating a play session.

Enter Tory. Tory is a working dog, right? So tonight I decided to let her off the tether and see how she'd do. As soon as I released her, she took off - playing with the younger dog. The two of them galloped all over the yard and had the best time. The younger dog is 20 months, Tory is 16 months so they are well matched. Tory will never be as agile or quick due to her size but held her own. It was fun to watch them. But....since she is here to work, is it okay to let her play? I know that sounds awful, but I would hate to distract her from her duties. At night my dogs, who are outside during the day are put up so that they won't roam, bark etc. Tory is tethered tonight but ultimately the goal is to have her patrolling the property at night. So the other dogs won't be there to distract her at night so I'm thinking let them have a little fun in the evenings if they want to?

And, second question. I went to feed and wasn't sure whether to feed her with the other dogs or apart. She is showing no signs of food aggression so far. Our younger dog is dominant and so far Tory is being respectful/submissive to both of the existing dogs. I wound up filling the three bowls and setting them down in a line, each bowl about 6' from the next. That seemed to work - they all got down to business and licked the bowls clean. But should I be feeding her separately?

Tonight while I was out with her on leash, a jogger jogged past. Tory barked at him. Good dog! Although she is primarily an LGD, I don't mind AT ALL if she also alerts to things that might be a danger to a human.

Hahahaha! You sound just like me! I personally think playing is fine. Young dogs need to burn off energy and they do that by playing and running with each other. Molly and Lucie rough house and play all the time. Lucie plays with our house dogs too. I try not to let her pal around with them too much because they aren't outside a lot and I don't want her missing them and trying to squirrel her way into the house. But they do play and do enjoy each other.

Do your other dogs come in the house or are they penned at night? She might get a little lonely if she is out there all alone, just keep an eye on her. Molly howled a lot at night until we got Lucie, I think she missed the shepherd she was buddies with at her last home. If they get along feed them together is my thought. I might stand corrected but I feed Molly and Lucie twice a day and when I first brought Molly home she was used to grazing on dog food which just doesn't work here. Too many free ranging birds interested in dog food so we started with meals and I think eating with the puppy helped because they both ate their bowl of food and went on their way. Because Tory has never had to "defend" her bowl from prying goats or sheep etc she may not be very food aggressive. Molly lived with cattle and goats for a long time and still hunkers and snarls over her food bowl if anyone (animal wise) comes near it!

I think there are two schools of thought on LGDs. (This is from my book that I read) One is that you get a pup and put it in a field far away from people and raise it with livestock so it thinks it is one of them. It is fairly unsocialized to much outside of its pasture and protects the livestock it lives with. The other thought is that a LGD can be a socialized member of a farm, being taught to tolerate and protect a broad spectrum of farm animals, the property and people who live there too. This dog might play with other dogs that live on the farm and generally hang out and be social with the people who live there. It is still a working dog, just doing a different kind of job. And they will bark at EVERYTHING! Warn your mail delivery and ups delivery etc that if they don't feel comfortable to call you to pick up packages because these dogs will bark at anything that moves near your property! Our mail lady is so scared of Molly! I told her to honk if I am home and I will come out to the car or call from the PO so she doesn't have to get out of the car and I will come down and pick up packages! I am very careful to always praise the girls for barking at "strangers" when they come before I tell them its ok and they don't have to keep barking. I like that they alert me to people arriving. It keeps people I don't know in their car until I get out there too!

See, LGD and personal protection for your family all in one!!! It took me a while to not feel like the dogs should be "working" all the time. I used to grumble about how out of it they were during the day but I read in that book that people often feel like they should see their dogs working when most of their work is done while we are fast asleep. They said to ask yourself the last time you had a livestock loss to a predator and I hadn't had any since the dogs arrived....so they are doing their job and I needed to lay off them a bit! I tend to be over controlling so it was hard for me to let go of my perception of what they should be doing and just let them do what they do! DH still tries to boss them around some when he is here on the weekends and I am always telling him to leave them be. Especially the puppy who is always into something and I am tired of harping at her. The only time she gets in trouble is when she is chasing chickens or chewing my fruit trees!

 

[Trish44]

I started writing & then lost everything, how aggravating! HeChicken, my pups play during the evenings when it's not so hot out, GPs are big dogs & aren't past the puppy stage totally until they're past 2 years old, so I don't see anything wrong with them playing. GPs are known for being food aggressive, so I wouldn't take a chance on your dogs getting into a big fight over food even if they're not right now. Mine are sisters & they can't eat together or they will fight. I used to feed them in the dog run, one on one side of the dog house & one on the other, but now I have turkeys in there so I feed one on one side of a rabbit hutch & one on the other. They sound like they're going to kill each other when they fight, but it's mostly posturing. They will fight over anything, dog houses, bones, even though we have two of everything, they're like kids. Yes, Josie is right they do bark at everything, my mail lady is terrified of them, she doesn't realize that their bark is used to intimidate, not to be aggressive, but they are big dogs. I have had people come here & not want to get out of the car until I come out. I can't blame them really. My pups sleep most of the day because they're up most all night long barking & running things off. I had wondered if it would bother me to have dogs barking all night, but actually it makes me sleep better most of the time because I know if they're barking they're doing their job out there & it makes me feel better about my birds & rabbits being out there. Now that I have chicks, peacocks, & turkeys as well as my older chickens I know that they're all watched over with the dogs out there & even if I don't get home right at time to shut the run door I know the chickens will go in by themselves & the dogs will be there. I think the GPs kind of watch over everyone & everything they're put in charge of, people, animals, & birds. Mine check everything out every time I bring something new home, it's like they have this inventory they keep of what belongs here, it's pretty amazing.

Josie, most of the predators are out there during the night, so that's when the GPs are the most active. You would expect them to sleep some time & I don't feel bad when mine crawl under a bush or some other shady spot & sleep during the heat of the day. But don't kid yourself, if something comes around that they don't think belongs there they will get up. I think Lily kind of gives Jasmine a break more because she is the leader & is more active & I do see Lily a little more during the day than I do Jas. I have two really different dogs, one is really friendly & wants attention, that's Lily & the other is more shy & reserved & doesn't take to strangers at all.

KarenS, my Swedish Flower Hen eggs are due to hatch the 12th, I always candle when I'm getting ready to put eggs into lockdown so I can eliminate any that didn't develop. I'm hopeful I will get a few more this time than on the last hatch, but then I had more eggs too.

 

[sapphireblu76]

Sapphire you're funny. I couldn't stand to walk around barefoot. My feet are too tender. But I do wear slides and get my feet wet and "muddy" (usually a consistency of poop and water in the pens) all the time. I can't even get my feet looking clean in the summer because they tend to attract dirt in every crevice. I am not in the least worried about being covered in poo; feet or any where else. It's just the nature of the beast. The only thing I truly hate is the duck pen sludge. That is nasty. You just can't move them often enough. I guess that is why I prefer to let my ducks all free range because then it's not such a mess.

Yeah, if I do wear shoes, it's usually flip flops. I guess it's really not much different than running around barefoot it the respect of how wet and dirty my feet get when I'm doing chores

Ok, that's just weird. I guess I closed my laptop too fast last night after hitting 'send' and it's posted it again this morning when I opened the lid again! Bizarre.

I never got out to the farm. I had a friend lock up for me because I got a panic call.

A girlfriend's ex lives out in the boonies and he had the kids yesterday. Their dog ran over to the neighbor's fence because the cows were up along it and the kids were over there trying to get the dog back when the drunk neighbor came out and shot the dog, right in front of the kids. I'm not sure the dog was even off the kids' property, but the sheriff in that area is a buddy of the drunk...so we'll see what happens. Anyway, she called me because she wanted a cool head in the situation to help out, so I went. Those kids are unconsolable.

I feel terrible, because I get it, but I think this one was unjustifiable. The dog wasn't a chronic problem, just curious...and I don't think the neighbor owns the cows, either. It's very confusing and sad. The kids were right there!! Just imagine if one got in the way!

OMG! Thank goodness the children weren't shot! That's just awful that he did that in front of them anyway! I hope he gets what's coming to him.

Just a brief check in. Have not been on because I don't like to read other people putting there spouse dpwn.....Surely something else can be talked about....

Anyway, Ivy, had a close lightning strike, so they have not had any internet service for like 2 weeks now. She has a lot to tell everyone when they get back on. They did buy the house in Oswego, and I think the their land auction is the 24th up in Hiawatha..

Cherokee county fair starts the 17, so we are working hard getting everything ready. Almost there, one more work day, and should be ready to go.

Labette co. called I am going to go over and judge their show. I am not a judge, but I told them I would help them out.

I went to the turykey creek sway yesterday over in Joplin, and sold all of my extra birds. That will take my feed bill down, seen some swedish flower hens, they were a young pair, but I seen to much work there, and I don't need anouther project. They are a large bird, and they just consume a lot.

It has been hot, and all of my birds are up in pens now. They have auto water so I don't have to worry about them running out of water, but everything gets hot and so does the water. I also have a high volume fan blowing to move the air.Been seeing a lot of people fighting lice and mites on your birds, don't forget to check. and treat them for the little pests. Can you imagine what it must feel like with those darn things running all over a chckens body!!!! EEEEEWWWW~~~~

If you can, feed high moisture treats in vegtables that helps, I put lettuce and kale and leafy veggies out, they will gobble them right up
L

Like Checoukan said, my internet got FRIED a little over two weeks ago. We just got it running last night. I skimmed through the pages I missed, but honestly, I didn't read everything.

Yes, did get the contract on the house at Oswego. We are very happy and excited to move. I just wish we were getting things fixed up around here a little faster. I posted a pic of the little chicken house at the place we are buying. Here is a picture of the house. It is a really unique home.



DH has agreed to put his shop in one of the barns at the north side of the property. They are nice buildings with 220 wiring, pipe corrals, cement floors and auto waterers. That means I get the shop that is closest to the house! It has a covered area attached to it with a cement floor, and that is where I am going to put my bantams. I think it is going to work great. All of my large birds will go in the layer coop. I have cut down on my numbers, so I will only have a few layers. Here's a picture of the shop with the covered area that I will use for my woodworking and my bantams. We will have to enclose the overhang, but we want to make it so that we can open it up on the south for ventillation.


I better go move the hose. I've got the timer on so I can deep water all the trees.

Glad to see you! WOW, the house and property are gorgeous!

Well, I know I've been a little coy about the details but I didn't want to say too much in case it didn't work out. Josie kindly offered to watch out on CL for LGD's for me and it didn't take her long. The very next day she contacted me about a dog available in my area. I have been in touch with the owner ever since but we decided to take it slowly. DH isn't keen on the idea of adding another dependent. And I don't want to go behind his back and force him to come around. I raised some of the points you all had made and he understands, but is also concerned that well, basically, people don't often give up great dogs. Usually if they come available for adoption, it is because they are not working out one way or another, and he didn't want us to end up stuck with someone else's problem. He also feels an LGD is overkill on our little property, guarding our small flock. I can't disagree with that in some ways. On the other hand, I don't want to go through that devastation too many times.

So, the current owner kindly agreed to allow us a trial period. If it isn't working out, they will take her back, no questions asked. We can take as long as we want to see how she is fitting in with us.

Tory is a 16-month-old Akbash/Great Pyrenees. The father was full GP, the mother full Akbash. 16 months is, I'm hoping, old enough to be through the worst of the puppy stage, but young enough to bond to us, our property and the animals on it that need protection. The Akbash makes her shorter haired than a GP.

She arrived this morning and we spent 2 hours showing her around our property, talking, asking questions, discussing what might work for her and what might not. The owner felt encouraged after seeing our place that it is a good environment for her. Although they have more acreage, none of it is enclosed or fenced and she felt Tory was confused about what property she should protect and how far she could roam. She thinks since ours is visibly marked by fencing and a tree hedgerow, it will be clearer to her, where she is supposed to stay. We took her down to the chicken yard - not in it - just around it, and with a fence between her and the chickens, she was very calm. She was also very good with our two dogs.

So, she is staying for the trial period. With no dog pen, I currently have her tied to a tree in the front yard where she has shade all day and her big water pail next to her. I am going out every hour to do a perimeter walk with her, so she isn't tethered for too long at a time. I'm afraid when it is all so new to her that if I let her off, she will roam off the property and since she is not my dog yet, I would really hate to make a call to the owner to tell her I lost the dog. So, although I don't like tying a dog and have never done it before, this is how its going to be for a few days until she is used to us.

She is so calm and gentle - I'm really impressed with her. She seemed to take to me right away - the owner said she likes women best. I'm

she will work out well. Anyway, here are some pics of her. These are the pics from the CL ad - not my photos.

Beautiful! I hope she works out for you ^_^

Trish you should test everything you intend to breed or sell and any birds over 4 months old. You don't need to test meaties or something you intend to eat. Ducks don't need tested. The test needs to be repeated only one time a year to keep your certification up.
If the weather had been more cooperative I should have just set a date to be in the Wichita area and gotten all of you down there tested. Maybe this fall we can get that done.
So far out of this group I've only tested Josie's birds. Her birds are all awesome and the testing went super smooth.
Quote:
Yes I forgot Lizzy you will love your purchases. I'm a power tool freak! Love them.Congrats

Well I do know quite a bit about eagles because they nest on Wolf Creek lake and they hang around in the winter rather than migrate because the water is warmer from the discharge, and they love eating fish.
Every now and then they will fly over here probably because we are very close to the lake.I learned a lot about them both from watching them and learning from the plant environmentalist. Eagles mate for life unless one of the mates gets killed then they will choose a new mate. They don't breed until they are 5 years old. They will build a nest one year when they are courting and then lay in it the following years for life unless the nest gets destroyed. They will then build another nest in the close area.
Not disagreeing Ivy, but what you saw was probably an immature bald eagle rather than a golden eagle. Bald eagles don't get a white head until they are mature. I believe the environmentalist told me the head color changed at about 2-3 years old. They are simply the brown color all over while they are young.
Eagles normally migrate and cover a large area for the right conditions. But because it has been warmer around here in winter recently they are starting to stick around the area more. They will hunt many miles from their nesting spot but like chickens usually go back to that close vicinity to roost at night in the trees.
They normally only hatch 3-4 chicks each year. That is why you don't see tons of them. Think of it; 5 years to lay eggs then only a few chicks after all that time. But they do have a long life span if they aren't killed.
I love eagles and have always had a passion for them, so to have them live so close to me in large numbers is a real trip.
They soar overhead here once in a while but always fairly high up and have never come down to hunt, thank goodness.
That is great! I was told by a vet that the GP's were originally bred from the akbash for colder weather areas. They are not quite as aggressive as a GP which is good particularly if you are on a smaller property. I think she will be a perfect choice. That's awesome that Josie was on the lookout for you. And that is still young enough she should bond to you easily. Congrats!

Karens, you know I'd be glad to do your birds anytime. I owe you anyway. You just say when.

Danz, what would you charge? Of course, I'm a couple of hours away, so I don't know if you'd want to travel that far.

I hope you all will forgive me if I have a lot of LGD questions in the next few weeks.

A little background. We have two dogs, both about 40lb. The younger one has been teaching the older, emotionally scarred (she came that way, long story, won't get into it) dog to play, with some success. Especially since we've been at the new place, we've noticed the older dog not only playing more but occasionally even originating a play session.

Enter Tory. Tory is a working dog, right? So tonight I decided to let her off the tether and see how she'd do. As soon as I released her, she took off - playing with the younger dog. The two of them galloped all over the yard and had the best time. The younger dog is 20 months, Tory is 16 months so they are well matched. Tory will never be as agile or quick due to her size but held her own. It was fun to watch them. But....since she is here to work, is it okay to let her play? I know that sounds awful, but I would hate to distract her from her duties. At night my dogs, who are outside during the day are put up so that they won't roam, bark etc. Tory is tethered tonight but ultimately the goal is to have her patrolling the property at night. So the other dogs won't be there to distract her at night so I'm thinking let them have a little fun in the evenings if they want to?

And, second question. I went to feed and wasn't sure whether to feed her with the other dogs or apart. She is showing no signs of food aggression so far. Our younger dog is dominant and so far Tory is being respectful/submissive to both of the existing dogs. I wound up filling the three bowls and setting them down in a line, each bowl about 6' from the next. That seemed to work - they all got down to business and licked the bowls clean. But should I be feeding her separately?

Tonight while I was out with her on leash, a jogger jogged past. Tory barked at him. Good dog! Although she is primarily an LGD, I don't mind AT ALL if she also alerts to things that might be a danger to a human.

My indoor "guard" dog and LGD play every evening. He is learning her tricks and I look at it as he will be more prepared if he needs to really fight another dog or real coyote. It also is good exercise for both of them and they don't have so much boredom built up. I say let 'em play

 

[sapphireblu76]

Yep, them old bad roosters. Sometimes you just gotta CHOP their heads off!

 

[michelleml]

I hope I'm in the right place we just moved to Kansas a little over a month ago and so far we are loving it. I'm not crazy about all the bugs but i guess with time we will get over it. I'm from TX and a city girl so living out in the country is a big change for us. We currently have 4 buff orpington and kids love having them


Michelle

 

[chicken danz]

Sapphire I don't remember how far you were. I know you had a long drive up here to get the pup. As long as I have my gas paid for and fees I pay to the state to get the flock number I don't care, particularly if I can test several flocks in one trip. If I test a single flock I normally charge $5 plus $1 per bird to pay for gas,serum, and the fees. But say, if I drove to the Wichita area and could get several people at once I'd probably just take donations for my gas and serum. I doubt I would use that much serum. I could give you all the forms and the letter to get the flock number and let you handle that angle of the expense and sending it in, which isn't much.
The key to getting it done is being able to have the chickens brought to me one after another and not having to wait to have them chased down. If I have to wait that limits me to getting only one or two flocks tested in a day (depending on the size of the flock of course) which isn't practical.
When the state tests for the fair it is paid for by the state and K-state university so it costs nothing. But fair testing is different than flock testing. You actually don't send it in. You just have to have the form and then it goes on the exibitors list.
I'm pretty disgusted at the state because they are taking months to get flock numbers out and it is only supposed to take a couple weeks. I do hope they get their act together soon. As long as you have your VS form 9-2 though at least you can prove the flock has been tested. Josie, Did it come yet. Let me know and I will call them if it hasn't.
HEchicken, I would let your dogs play. All of my dogs play when it is is cool and I love watching them have fun rather than having to be serious all the time. They will work all night and sleep most of the day but don't let them fool you. They have very keen hearing, and will wake up on a dime and be ready to work. My two adults can be sound asleep and if the chickens or the guineas let out alarming noises the dogs are up and headed that direction. I can be out working in the yard with the dogs sounds asleep and drop something or hit something and here comes the dogs barking and ready for action.
GP's are sweet loyal dogs and I think they are probably some of the best family dogs you could have. They will place themselves between you and anything or anyone they see as a potential threat. They can be totally loving up to someone who comes to visit but if you watch you will see their placement is between the two of you and they will watch that person very carefully even though they are being petted. At some point most will relax or if they have a certain command like "It's ok" or "Enough" or whatever you choose to use they will know what you mean after a few times. Akbash a little more laid back so yours might not be quite as human protective. Bond with the dog and I think she will be though.
I would continue to separate the feed like you did if I were you. GPs are very protective over food. There is always going to be the lead dog and even though the pup isn't showing food aggression at this point I think as she becomes more comfortable she will to some extent. And yes they like to graze over their food but they will protect their bowl from anyone and anything even if they don't want to eat right then. Make sure the dog has it's own bowl that it knows is hers. I have no idea how Akbash are as far as feed goes so you may not have that trouble but I would certainly just take a precaution and set the routine early.
I think the dog will be fine by itself out at night. Marshmallow worked alone for at least 2 years before I got Fluff. Lots of people say you need 2 dogs but watching her I know she gauged her range to go out where she could still monitor the stock. If you had a large acreage and lots of animals to protect in different areas then definitely 2 dogs or more would be in order.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Hawkeye- Do you guys ever worry about your birds catching something when you are showing? Do you quarantine your show birds when they come back home? That is my biggest fear, it might seem silly but who knows what a bird in the cage next to them might be hiding and if they catch it and bring it home to your whole flock?

Makes me very nervous taking them out like that and then bringing them back....I really would love to get into it though. I have a handful of decent cochins and would love to see how they do in a show. Plus its always fun to meet friendly chicken folks! Oh, where is the NPIP site? I thought in Kansas you had to test all birds that were breeding age?? Danz?? Why not test ducks but test geese? So confused somedays!

I'm not too worried, but I know there is concern, for sure. Something I've thought of is that I have seen others use plastic sheilds between their cages. I think that's really smart, but I haven't made a shield. I'm not really sure how they got it in there! There is really only a small door on the front of the cage. Perhaps it is flexible to be rolled up. I know they attached it with twist ties on each end. I have my silkies separate, and so they have no contact with the layers or their coop at all. I suppose if something were to happen, it would only affect one flock, which would still be a shame as this is the one I have invested the most money in! I do have a quarantine area I set up last when I had those birds shipped to me. I have bought a whole bunch of those wire dog kennels and stacked them in the garage. Now, not really ideal when it's sooo hot now, but the option is there. I was also thinking about throwing them in the horse stall I prepared for last years chicks. That would be a large open space and have lots of ventilation.

One example comes to mind here; I doubt any of you could take your flock of birds and dig up your favorite flowers and load them up in a U-Haul and drive to CA for a new start.

If you are participating in the National Poultry Improvement Plan (NPIP) and have the certification, you can ship or move your birds.

Hawkeye, I'm not disagreeing with you on your information. Not sure which site you got it from. However, I do know that in order to be certified NPIP clean for breeding, all birds of breeding age have to be tested. I tend to follow the national rules that are specified for hatcheries and breeders since most people who want their flock verified clean are planning to sell their birds,chicks or eggs and often ship those birds across state lines. I admit I might have missed something in my studies and you might save me a lot of testing if you can point me in the right direction.
It is apparent though if you had 40 chickens and got them from different breeders unless they were all certified clean, and you only tested 30 of those birds you could miss infected birds in your flock. Not all chicks with pullorum die and grow into adults which spread it to their offspring. You could potentially spread it to every bird on the place. You can test select birds for the fair and your fine but if you want to be sure your flock is clean I do believe all birds should be tested. Most of us don't get our birds from a single source.
Josie I think the duck thing is in the Kansas rules for exhibition and swap meets. I have no idea why they chose not to test ducks for these things. It doesn't make sense. I don't think geese are necessarily considered water fowl where ducks typically are. There is so much gray area in there. I have made several calls to Dr. Grosdidier who is in charge of administering the NPIP program in Kansas trying to get full answers to many of those questions. And with each state setting up it's own rules to administer the program it becomes more and more confusing.
Each year they make changes to the provisions and the rules and a person almost has to attend the national meeting in order to know what is current and what is not. I just kind of go with what I believe is the safe and best.

Danz I found it on the usda website-- http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/animal_dis_spec/poultry/ but darned if I can find the link I clicked! LOL Ah well, yes, I think it's pretty smart to test every bird because you make an excellent point about birds coming from different places. But on that site I just linked to-- it says ALL waterfowl must be tested... so why aren't we testing ducks here??? I wonder what the deal with that is. That seems kind of dumb to test everything else except them.

And I have a question for you! What if you have two separate flocks like I do? I assuming the smartest move would be to test every single bird on the property even though the other flock will never be shipped, exhibited, etc... I haven't done much reading on this, so are these AIR borne diseases, or simply contact (fluid, fecal, etc).

I about had heart failure earlier when I went out to leave. On my way to the garage I looked over at the run & there trying to get around the door that was propped open was one of the Swedish Flower Hen chicks, it had escaped the grow-out pen & not only was outside of it's pen, but outside the run too. I had to drop everything & go catch it fast while it was trying to figure out the door. It turned out they had dug a hole under the pen & fortunately it was the only one out, so I put it back in & put bricks there. Whew, that scared, me those are some precious chicks besides the Cream Legbars that are my other expensive ones.

glad your Swedish Flower didn't get away-- those are expensive birds! What are you talking about with a "crest"?? Are some of yours getting crests on them?? I've seen plenty of pictures of them, but not with crests. I think that would look so cool!

Josie like I said different states have different rules. She may be able to legally ship out of her state but she may not be able to ship into the some states. Kansas for instance doesn't legally allow any eggs or birds to be shipped in without PT test papers. It happens but it's not legal. The PO doesn't take responsibility for enforcing the law so it slips through the cracks all the time. In Oklahoma for instance, their testing is cheaper and easier to get done but they are very strict about bringing any bird of any kind in from out of state without the correct forms. Again it happens but you had better not get caught doing it.
I sold to some people in Oklahoma and had to have separate test papers for those birds that were one within 30 days of when they crossed the state line.
I personally would like to see the rules become a little more stringent. There have been some recent incidents of positive tests in the country and it worries me a lot. I want to feel comfortable if I do happen to buy a bird or eggs from someone else to know I am not going to infect my flock in the process.
It's a time bomb thing with more and more back yard flocks. The hatcheries are monitored and inspected, but depending on how closely a state keeps these inspections, even they could sell infected chicks, especially those that contract out to other entities to purchase chicks rather than hatching all of their own.
There is no profit in the program so it could easily loose funding in the government cutbacks. Scary thing

Scary! So far, I've only dealt with NPIP flocks. BUT, the PO is really bad about not checking avian boxes because the breeder said that she was sending the NPIP forms with my birds.... and it was taped to the INSIDE of my box! The box was not opened. How would they know that my birds were NPIP??? No questions at the sorting center when I picked them up at the Airport, either! They just asked me what kind of birds I had shipped.

Actually, they were so interested, I got Zorro out to show them and they were shocked at what he looked like and he rode home on my lap and looked out the window and talked to me the whole time. Such a good boy. But his papers, even though they were still viable (not yet a year out of date)-- they can't be used in Kansas. Which is no big deal to me if they have to be tested again. Danz, if you come down to do anyone, I want in, because I want to have both my flocks NPIP rather than just certain birds I am exhibiting.

Yep, them old bad roosters. Sometimes you just gotta CHOP their heads off!

LOL!!

Yep, having a dad that loved and raised chickens -- I grew up with birds and it didn't take much to have a "Sunday chicken" on the table when a rooster was being mean. Or when our laying hens got past their laying days... Adios girls! The most we ever did at one time was those awful Leghorns-- we butchered 20 of them in one day. Bleah. I can still smell that smell... Don't worry, didn't take me off from eating chicken, but I'd rather eat them and not pluck and gut them. Sigh.