Consolidated Kansas

[HEChicken]

I have been having an issue with my coop smelling like ammonia EVERY morning. That in and of itself worries me. I've been trying to figure out how to add more ventilation without making the coop COLD for this winter.

Chickens are VERY cold tolerant - I wouldn't worry about them being cold. Honestly. Chickens are raised in Alaska without supplemental heat and do just fine so I think they can handle pretty much anything Kansas can throw at them. What will make it hard for them to get through a winter without cold related issues are poor ventilation and drafts. So rather than thinking of it as allowing more cold in, look only to adding ventilation without creating drafts. If you can smell ammonia, you are right that there isn't enough ventilation, and that will cause problems for them this winter. When you hear people talking about frostbite, it is because there isn't enough ventilation to vent the humidity from the exhalations from the birds' breathing.

Adding ventilation without creating drafts can seem like a daunting prospect. First, you don't want to place a source of air entering the coop, at the level of the roosts. If the air is blowing right on them, they are going to be sitting in drafts whenever it is windy, and that won't be good for them. Consider the effects of cross-breezes. I.e. adding one window will allow some air to go in and out, but add a window across the coop from the first and you'll create a cross-draft that will suck air in one side and out the other. So, thinking about how those principles work, you can use that for you rather than against you. I.e. instead of putting a window on each end of the roost, creating a draft across the roost, place your windows so that the cross-draft works in your favor.

Trish, yay for making progress on your breeder coop - we need updated pictures!!!

I've just returned from Sam's Club and is it just me or is that place one of the biggest rackets out there? I'm the type of person who tends to remember prices and more often than not I find that things at SC are actually more expensive than at Dillons. Plus, at Dillons they provide bags, employees to bag it for you, employees to help carry it out to your car (if you want them to, which I never do) AND they don't charge a membership fee. I do still shop at SC but do it very, very carefully. As an example, last week I bought Roma Tomatoes at Dillons for 99c/lb. This morning I saw a big sign at SC: "Roma Tomatoes - 3 lb for $6". Ummm....I can do the math here folks and that is twice what they cost me a few days ago. A 10-lb bag of potatoes was $2.98. I paid $2.88 at Dillons last week. Plus, most of the stuff they sell at SC isn't even the kind of food I would want to feed my family. You can't find brown rice, whole wheat flour or whole wheat pasta there - everything is white. It is even hard to find decent quality whole-wheat bread. So much of the food there is over-processed, packaged food that we just never eat. So all I really go for is the fresh fruit/veg, and I often get a salmon, and some block cheese there. So it was disappointing to find that the fruit/veg was more expensive there than at Dillons this morning. Even the gas, which is supposedly 5c per gallon cheaper really isn't, because they just inflate the price they start at. As I was leaving I noticed they had a sign up saying today's gas price is $3.61/gallon. Then I drove past QuikTrip where the gas was $3.63 - only two cents higher, not five.

 

[maidenwolfx80]

Oh guys I may have been to busy minded to say the tylenol is for the turkey. she is 4 to 4 1/2 months now and a royal palm mix so on th smaller side but by no means little.

 

[Kansas Prairie]

Anyway, I've been super stressed recently

Hang in there Lizzy!

Here is what helped me.
Back when my 3 children were little, I couldn't tell people NO, I had several projects going for other people that I didn't have time to do, they were good things like making a cookbook, helping with funeral dinners, teaching classes, babysitting peoples kids so they could go to the city, and the list goes on and on. A very WISE lady looked at me, she said what's wrong? I explained with tears in my eyes, I have so many things going on I forgot to send a card or call my Grandpa and tell him happy birthday yesterday, and that was important to me and to him. She told me something to this day I hang on to. She said You have a kind and helping servant's heart, YOU HAVE to tell someone NO, tell others NO or your family NO. She said do you understand if you agree to do something for someone else it takes time & energy then you have to tell your precious family NO. She said she'd been married for 60 years and there are times in a marriage that you may need to kindly explain to your husband that you need help or that you can't help him that day or maybe that week. She was right, now when someone asks to do something I think of her saying " tell them No or my family NO". Hope this helps someone else as much as it's helped me over the years.

 

[lizzyGSR]

lizzy, you could use some of the vents on your coop like I have on mine. They're really made for putting on houses at the level of the crawl space to let air in there, but they have louvers & close at 40 degrees. I have two of them on the back of my coop. I'll try to get a pic of them later if I can remember. I have had them on there for over a year & haven't had any problems with them letting rain in & some air coming through in the winter isn't a bad thing, you don't want it air tight or you will have moisture problems & your chickens will start having respiratory problems too if the ammonia gets too strong in there. I noticed that when I had to clean out my deep litter this spring. If it's getting strong smelling you need to do something now because your chickens will start getting sick. Also, I noticed it looks like you're using straw & that holds an awful lot of moisture & it doesn't dry out well. Pine shavings are a lot drier & you can keep piling them on all winter, just turning them over as they need to be & by spring you will have some nice compost.

Those vents sound like a good idea, but a picture would be much appreciated if you have time to take one. I've been changing the straw out once ever couple of weeks, as needed. I'm using straw because the neighbor gave me a big round bale for free.

Chickens are VERY cold tolerant - I wouldn't worry about them being cold. Honestly. Chickens are raised in Alaska without supplemental heat and do just fine so I think they can handle pretty much anything Kansas can throw at them. What will make it hard for them to get through a winter without cold related issues are poor ventilation and drafts. So rather than thinking of it as allowing more cold in, look only to adding ventilation without creating drafts. If you can smell ammonia, you are right that there isn't enough ventilation, and that will cause problems for them this winter. When you hear people talking about frostbite, it is because there isn't enough ventilation to vent the humidity from the exhalations from the birds' breathing.

Adding ventilation without creating drafts can seem like a daunting prospect. First, you don't want to place a source of air entering the coop, at the level of the roosts. If the air is blowing right on them, they are going to be sitting in drafts whenever it is windy, and that won't be good for them. Consider the effects of cross-breezes. I.e. adding one window will allow some air to go in and out, but add a window across the coop from the first and you'll create a cross-draft that will suck air in one side and out the other. So, thinking about how those principles work, you can use that for you rather than against you. I.e. instead of putting a window on each end of the roost, creating a draft across the roost, place your windows so that the cross-draft works in your favor.

I don't know if this will make a difference, but I have ducks and a goose, NOT chickens... The windows are as high as they can be without running into the roof or being at weird angles. I would like to put a couple of vents up towards the top of the "peak" but have to figure out how to cover the vents to keep the rain out.

Right now, I have a window on the EAst side and one on the WEst. I had plans to put two more windows on the north side, but those were made before I decided on a final place for my coop. Now, that those windows would be facing North, I'm not so sure that I like that idea. The windows would open up to right about head-high on a duck, depending on how deep the bedding is.

Hang in there Lizzy!

Here is what helped me.
Back when my 3 children were little, I couldn't tell people NO, I had several projects going for other people that I didn't have time to do, they were good things like making a cookbook, helping with funeral dinners, teaching classes, babysitting peoples kids so they could go to the city, and the list goes on and on. A very WISE lady looked at me, she said what's wrong? I explained with tears in my eyes, I have so many things going on I forgot to send a card or call my Grandpa and tell him happy birthday yesterday, and that was important to me and to him. She told me something to this day I hang on to. She said You have a kind and helping servant's heart, YOU HAVE to tell someone NO, tell others NO or your family NO. She said do you understand if you agree to do something for someone else it takes time & energy then you have to tell your precious family NO. She said she'd been married for 60 years and there are times in a marriage that you may need to kindly explain to your husband that you need help or that you can't help him that day or maybe that week. She was right, now when someone asks to do something I think of her saying " tell them No or my family NO". Hope this helps someone else as much as it's helped me over the years.

Thanks for the advice. I admit, I'm terrible at telling people "no". However, this time, there isn't anything I could do about it. My parents are currently housing my horses and told me I had to have them off of their property by 11/1. Because of my work schedule and my DH's work schedule (Absolutely no coinciding days off the whole month of October), I had to tell them that I wouldn't be able to pick them up till Thanksgiving. Their response was to plan to move the horses (on 11/1) to an area where they wouldn't have much shelter and then charge me per day for having them there. To their benefit, they've agreed to take on another boarder horse and don't have enough space in the barn for them, but at least the pen they will be in until 11/1 has a covered area that is separate from the barn... GRRRR. Anyway, to avoid paying a fortune in horse boarding fees, I've got to get everything ready for them by the time we leave for Thanksgiving vacation.

 

[Kansas Prairie]

Lizzy,

Where is your roost located, is your roosting board nice and wide so they can cover their feet with theirs warm breasts?

Smelling like ammonia is a warning sign for sure, it screams "dry me out now!" Deep Litter Method is great if it's dry. Chicken poop is moist and adds to the humidity.
Metal roofs are great and they produce condensate that adds to the humidity, if there are high vents that allow air to pass by the under side of the metal it will dry the condensate. I'm not a building expert, I'd put some vents up under the over hang on that North side, and then on the South side under the over hang and cover with hardware cloth, the over hang would help keep the rain out and get a flow of air under that metal roof.

I don't have good luck with straw, and we live in drought country. I think it's hard to keep straw dry. I have better luck with SAND than with straw. Here is a link to litters.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/contents/05-08UgeorgiaLitter1.gif

Here are a couple of Old Timer quotes:.

"Closing windows/vents keeps the humidity in, 32 degrees and humid is much worse for them than 22 degrees and dry. It's the humidity that causes the real problems."
&
"Chickens are healthier living in a tree than in a coop with not enough ventilation. Coops are to protect birds from predators & to have a place to easily gather eggs."

 

[Kansas Prairie]

Never mind about the roost, I thought you had chickens.

 

[HEChicken]

Lizzy, sorry, I keep forgetting you have waterfowl rather than chickens. I would guess the cold-tolerant part is still accurate since like chickens they have a thick layer of down close to their skins. I have 6 muscovies and I am not making any special provisions for them this winter. They sleep in the coop with the chickens and will continue to do so through the winter. The ducks actually get up on the roosts with the chickens. The drakes haven't yet and may never - they are so much bigger and heavier I don't think they can, but they seem content sleeping in the deep straw on the floor of the coop. Do your ducks roost or just sleep on the floor. If the latter, that will make it easier for you to place windows where there isn't air blowing across roosts.

For what its worth, I do use straw for my coop and love it. I haven't had issues with it getting and staying wet, but I don't provide water in my coop so perhaps that makes the difference. Feed is inside, water is outside. As messy as those ducks are around water I don't think it would matter what I used - they would get and keep it wet. I am doing deep litter with the straw because, like Lizzy, I had it free and would have had to pay for the shavings. I started with two bales of shavings and then switched to the straw, and I really prefer the straw. It is very dry and seems to be to do a great job of absorbing moisture. Perhaps it depends how big the coop for the number of birds, and how deep the layer of straw? When you go into my coop, it has a very sweet, straw aroma to it. Every few days I throw a handful of scratch into the coop and the birds turn it all over looking for the scratch so it never even seems like there is that much poop in there. Plus, the birds, when scratching through it, will sometimes find a head of wheat so it gives them a treat and encourages them to continue scratching.

I have about 20 square bales to use, and each bale lasts them 2-3 months before it has been chopped up into fine enough pieces that I need to add more to get the layer deeper again. So I will be using straw for quite awhile at this rate.

 

[lizzyGSR]

lizzy, you could use some of the vents on your coop like I have on mine. They're really made for putting on houses at the level of the crawl space to let air in there, but they have louvers & close at 40 degrees. I have two of them on the back of my coop. I'll try to get a pic of them later if I can remember. I have had them on there for over a year & haven't had any problems with them letting rain in & some air coming through in the winter isn't a bad thing, you don't want it air tight or you will have moisture problems & your chickens will start having respiratory problems too if the ammonia gets too strong in there. I noticed that when I had to clean out my deep litter this spring. If it's getting strong smelling you need to do something now because your chickens will start getting sick. Also, I noticed it looks like you're using straw & that holds an awful lot of moisture & it doesn't dry out well. Pine shavings are a lot drier & you can keep piling them on all winter, just turning them over as they need to be & by spring you will have some nice compost.

Is something like this what you were talking about for vents? I could possibly (if there's room) put those above the front doors and on either side at the top, near the "peak". Do you think this would work?

 

[checoukan]

Lizzy,
I agree with Kansas Prairie(kp) I think the sand would work good. With those cold NW Kansas winters, and with the wet straw, when it freezes, how in the world would you ever get it out?
With sand, at least, I think it would be easier to remove when it freezes, and believe me it is going to freeze there and big time.

 

[lizzyGSR]

Lizzy,

Where is your roost located, is your roosting board nice and wide so they can cover their feet with theirs warm breasts?

Smelling like ammonia is a warning sign for sure, it screams "dry me out now!" Deep Litter Method is great if it's dry. Chicken poop is moist and adds to the humidity.
Metal roofs are great and they produce condensate that adds to the humidity, if there are high vents that allow air to pass by the under side of the metal it will dry the condensate. I'm not a building expert, I'd put some vents up under the over hang on that North side, and then on the South side under the over hang and cover with hardware cloth, the over hang would help keep the rain out and get a flow of air under that metal roof.

I don't have good luck with straw, and we live in drought country. I think it's hard to keep straw dry. I have better luck with SAND than with straw. Here is a link to litters.

http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/contents/05-08UgeorgiaLitter1.gif

Here are a couple of Old Timer quotes:.

"Closing windows/vents keeps the humidity in, 32 degrees and humid is much worse for them than 22 degrees and dry. It's the humidity that causes the real problems."
&
"Chickens are healthier living in a tree than in a coop with not enough ventilation. Coops are to protect birds from predators & to have a place to easily gather eggs."

I do not have a roosting board. The ducks sleep in the straw.

I guess I should clarify one thing. The coop smells like ammonia when I open the coop in the mornings. By the time the birds go back in at night, it no longer smells. When it's not raining/snowing out, I leave the front, right door open. Even if the door isn't open, the smell is completely gone by the time they go back in that evening. As far as I can tell, the straw dries out nicely during the day. I have 5 khaki campbell ducks (very small, all about 4 pounds each), 2 swedish ducks and a swedish cross drake, a duck I believe to be a rouen, and a Chinese goose. My coop is 4 wide by 8 feet long. At the tallest point, it is 4 feet tall (from floor to ceiling).

For the roof, the metal is only the "shingling". The roof of the coop, on the inside, is actually painted OSB. You can see what I mean in the first picture I posted. The OSB is painted on the outside (underneath the tin) as well.

Lizzy,
I agree with Kansas Prairie(kp) I think the sand would work good. With those cold NW Kansas winters, and with the wet straw, when it freezes, how in the world would you ever get it out?
With sand, at least, I think it would be easier to remove when it freezes, and believe me it is going to freeze there and big time.

I do have access to some sand, but I don't really think the straw is my problem. As I said above, the coop does not smell at all by the end of the day.

Lizzy, sorry, I keep forgetting you have waterfowl rather than chickens. I would guess the cold-tolerant part is still accurate since like chickens they have a thick layer of down close to their skins. I have 6 muscovies and I am not making any special provisions for them this winter. They sleep in the coop with the chickens and will continue to do so through the winter. The ducks actually get up on the roosts with the chickens. The drakes haven't yet and may never - they are so much bigger and heavier I don't think they can, but they seem content sleeping in the deep straw on the floor of the coop. Do your ducks roost or just sleep on the floor. If the latter, that will make it easier for you to place windows where there isn't air blowing across roosts.

For what its worth, I do use straw for my coop and love it. I haven't had issues with it getting and staying wet, but I don't provide water in my coop so perhaps that makes the difference. Feed is inside, water is outside. As messy as those ducks are around water I don't think it would matter what I used - they would get and keep it wet. I am doing deep litter with the straw because, like Lizzy, I had it free and would have had to pay for the shavings. I started with two bales of shavings and then switched to the straw, and I really prefer the straw. It is very dry and seems to be to do a great job of absorbing moisture. Perhaps it depends how big the coop for the number of birds, and how deep the layer of straw? When you go into my coop, it has a very sweet, straw aroma to it. Every few days I throw a handful of scratch into the coop and the birds turn it all over looking for the scratch so it never even seems like there is that much poop in there. Plus, the birds, when scratching through it, will sometimes find a head of wheat so it gives them a treat and encourages them to continue scratching.

I have about 20 square bales to use, and each bale lasts them 2-3 months before it has been chopped up into fine enough pieces that I need to add more to get the layer deeper again. So I will be using straw for quite awhile at this rate.

I don't provide water in my coop either, unless it does not cool off very much at night (i.e. in the middle of the summer).

As I mentioned above, the ducks sleep on the floor in the straw. However, the windows are positioned as high as I can get them, and they are still about level with the ducks heads. The ones on the back would be no exception if/when I add them.

I found these "under-eave" vents on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Maurice-Frank...ie=UTF8&qid=1349987241&sr=1-116&keywords=vent. I was thinking I could put 4-6 of them evenly spaced along the back, underneath the eave. If there's enough room between the door and the 2x4 above the door that supports the roof, I could also put them on the front. I could also put one or two on each side as close to the highest point of the roof as possible. What do you think of this idea? The more I think about putting the windows I had planned to put on the north side, the more I don't like the idea because of the draftiness it would cause.