Consolidated Kansas

[chicken danz]

Just found out that KarenS is very sick and in the hospital. Please pray for her. It doesn't sound good. She said she is doing a little better today and wants to go home but they are going to be doing some tests on her tomorrow. She said she would keep me posted. I'll let you all know if I hear anything else.

 

[Kansas Prairie]

Just found out that KarenS is very sick and in the hospital. Please pray for her. It doesn't sound good. She said she is doing a little better today and wants to go home but they are going to be doing some tests on her tomorrow. She said she would keep me posted. I'll let you all know if I hear anything else.

Will do.

 

[Trish44]

Well we just got back from a 15 day cruise last night & I'm still rocking from the motion on the ship. I always have the reverse motion problem for a few days after getting off the ship, it's a very strange feeling while sitting or standing on land to feel like your body is still moving & rocking with the ship. I have to get my land legs back again after being on the water for so long. We had 5 days at sea just to get to Hawaii from San Diego & then 5 coming back. This was our first time to see Hawaii & it was beautiful there. We haven't downloaded our photos yet from our cameras. I went to a Botanical garden in Hilo, Hawaii while my DH went on a hiking tour of a volcano. It was just beautiful in the rain forest there, so many beautiful flowers. We sailed by an active volcano one night & could see the glowing lava running down from it. We did lots of shopping for gifts & came back with a lot more than we left with, but the granddaughters will have fun with the things we brought them I hope. We had a lady on the ship from Hawaii who gave craft classes & taught us to make leis from natural kukui nuts, shells, & coconut beads as well as one from ribbon. I brought back lots of her nut beads & shells & have been making leis for the girls & others for gifts. I love doing crafts & this was right up my alley. We enjoyed the time on the ship too, they always have lots to do if you want to participate or just relaxing if you don't. For those who have never been on a cruise ship it's like a huge floating hotel with bars, a casino, shops, restaurant, dining rooms, buffet, swimming pools, game room for the kids, a cinema where they show movies, a theater where they do production shows every night, just everything you could want pretty much. If you go hungry on one of them it's your own fault because there is food available pretty much 24 hours a day & it's included in your cruise. The alcohol isn't, but you don't have to have that. We did buy our own soda pop & bring it onboard so we didn't have to pay their high prices for that.

I was worried about my chickens, rabbits, dogs, & other birds pretty much the whole time I was gone. I did end up losing one pullet, my ancona, while I was gone. I guess she got out of the run pretty much right at the first day or so & nobody could get her back in. The dogs decided she was fair game & they found her dead the next day. That was kind of sad because I was looking forward to having her start to lay soon. I knew the chickens in my general flock were not going to be happy about being confined because they're used to being out free-ranging every day. I left them a flock block to peck at & some cabbage too & I guess the critter sitter gave them a pumpkin to peck at also, which they really enjoyed. I went out this morning & everybody seems to be doing OK. I have some cleaning to do when I get recovered a little bit, but that's to be expected. I let the chickens out this morning & boy were they happy out there. I also let the turkeys out & they were out sunning the last I checked on them & the oldest guineas were out too yelling about it to everyone. They sure grew while I was gone! Our GPs were here to meet us last night when we got home & Lily was just grinning so big at us, they couldn't stop rubbing up against me & Lily almost knocked me down she was so glad to see me. I was really worried about them being here for so long without us being here, but I guess they did OK. Sunflowerparrot came out a lot to check on things & I'm really thankful for that since she has chickens too.

I started reading back some, but got to the point I just couldn't read any more, so I don't think I will try to read all two weeks worth all the way through on posts. I hope everyone is doing better who has been sick. KarenS, I just saw that you're ill also, I hope you get better soon, prayers coming your way. Checoukan, those are two pretty little cream legbar roos. I haven't had much time yet to go see how my cream legbars fared while I was gone. Well sitting here is making me dizzy now, so I have to stop for now. I'm glad to be back & I missed you all.

 

[cherwill]

Just found out that KarenS is very sick and in the hospital. Please pray for her. It doesn't sound good. She said she is doing a little better today and wants to go home but they are going to be doing some tests on her tomorrow. She said she would keep me posted. I'll let you all know if I hear anything else.

Thanks for letting us know; I'll keep her in my thoughts.

Well we just got back from a 15 day cruise last night & I'm still rocking from the motion on the ship. I always have the reverse motion problem for a few days after getting off the ship, it's a very strange feeling while sitting or standing on land to feel like your body is still moving & rocking with the ship. I have to get my land legs back again after being on the water for so long. We had 5 days at sea just to get to Hawaii from San Diego & then 5 coming back. This was our first time to see Hawaii & it was beautiful there. We haven't downloaded our photos yet from our cameras. I went to a Botanical garden in Hilo, Hawaii while my DH went on a hiking tour of a volcano. It was just beautiful in the rain forest there, so many beautiful flowers. We sailed by an active volcano one night & could see the glowing lava running down from it. We did lots of shopping for gifts & came back with a lot more than we left with, but the granddaughters will have fun with the things we brought them I hope. We had a lady on the ship from Hawaii who gave craft classes & taught us to make leis from natural kukui nuts, shells, & coconut beads as well as one from ribbon. I brought back lots of her nut beads & shells & have been making leis for the girls & others for gifts. I love doing crafts & this was right up my alley. We enjoyed the time on the ship too, they always have lots to do if you want to participate or just relaxing if you don't. For those who have never been on a cruise ship it's like a huge floating hotel with bars, a casino, shops, restaurant, dining rooms, buffet, swimming pools, game room for the kids, a cinema where they show movies, a theater where they do production shows every night, just everything you could want pretty much. If you go hungry on one of them it's your own fault because there is food available pretty much 24 hours a day & it's included in your cruise. The alcohol isn't, but you don't have to have that. We did buy our own soda pop & bring it onboard so we didn't have to pay their high prices for that.

I was worried about my chickens, rabbits, dogs, & other birds pretty much the whole time I was gone. I did end up losing one pullet, my ancona, while I was gone. I guess she got out of the run pretty much right at the first day or so & nobody could get her back in. The dogs decided she was fair game & they found her dead the next day. That was kind of sad because I was looking forward to having her start to lay soon. I knew the chickens in my general flock were not going to be happy about being confined because they're used to being out free-ranging every day. I left them a flock block to peck at & some cabbage too & I guess the critter sitter gave them a pumpkin to peck at also, which they really enjoyed. I went out this morning & everybody seems to be doing OK. I have some cleaning to do when I get recovered a little bit, but that's to be expected. I let the chickens out this morning & boy were they happy out there. I also let the turkeys out & they were out sunning the last I checked on them & the oldest guineas were out too yelling about it to everyone. They sure grew while I was gone! Our GPs were here to meet us last night when we got home & Lily was just grinning so big at us, they couldn't stop rubbing up against me & Lily almost knocked me down she was so glad to see me. I was really worried about them being here for so long without us being here, but I guess they did OK. Sunflowerparrot came out a lot to check on things & I'm really thankful for that since she has chickens too.

I started reading back some, but got to the point I just couldn't read any more, so I don't think I will try to read all two weeks worth all the way through on posts. I hope everyone is doing better who has been sick. KarenS, I just saw that you're ill also, I hope you get better soon, prayers coming your way. Checoukan, those are two pretty little cream legbar roos. I haven't had much time yet to go see how my cream legbars fared while I was gone. Well sitting here is making me dizzy now, so I have to stop for now. I'm glad to be back & I missed you all.

We went on a cruise for our honeymoon and it was a lot of fun. I've never slept so well in my life! I'm sorry you lost a pullet while you were gone. Even when we go somewhere I really want to go, I worry about my critters and it's always nice to come back home to them.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Oh I know, the turkeys are ridiculous sometimes. She really likes to be the boss so she may have a harsh adjustment period!
I have bantam cochins that are giant fluff balls and they have done very well during the summer. I haven't had any issues with them. My cochins are my favorite chickens.
Hahahahaha! I read this to DH it was so funny!!
So cute! Congrats to both of you, looks like you had tons of fun! Wish I could have gone with my geese! Next year! I almost wish there was one in December because they would be more feathered in by then. It takes them a while to feather back in after molting in the summer and then breeding starts in January and they trash each other!! Did you guys take Miss Josie to the show??
Congrats on the new pup. Looks like a fun new friend for Fern.



I need to go out and lock up birds and feed Molly. Then I am off to bed, I worked today and I am just wiped right out. I don't have the energy to fight with rich peoples naughty dogs all day. I will be so glad to get moved down and start working at my old work again and have dogs that are used to being groomed and aren't a matted mess!

So this is kind of funny. My little flame point kitty is on top of the dog kennel and Lucie is sitting up sniffing her feet. SO Dede keeps reaching through and swatting the dogs nose! You can imagine how amusing a dog that has been stuck in a wire crate for almost six weeks finds this activity. Poor dog is flat losing her mind. Danz-You think Cloud is out of control!! You should see what happens when you crate that energy long term. Ugh!

We did take Josie to the show! But by default, she won first place because there were no other Splash in Open. The Juniors had other silkies, though. You should show your cochins! They are show favorites at about every show I've been to. The judges love them! In fact, it was a cochin that won the Champion Featherleg (we took Reserve). When I saw all those rows of cochins, I didn't even think we'd ever manage to do that well! Hope you get to relax this week? Why are the dogs you are working on such matted messes? I have a regular appt with my groomer for every 8 weeks. The dogs just go in and they never get matted. They are also really well behaved on the table. I have a Pom and ShihTzu, so they HAVE to get groomed. I keep both of them shaved down so I don't have to deal with long hair. I just leave their tails and ears long, and that's it. I even have my ShihTzu's beard cut off and trimmed up, much to the groomer's disappointment. I just don't want a dirty face. Besides, I think it makes her look like a baby. Hope Lucie can handle the extended kenneling for a while longer. So glad she is continuing to do well!

The way the selling-on-zazzle thing works is: they offer a variety of products that are blank, and I can add my own graphics and text to them, then post them for sale. Anything that sells, I get a royalty on. It's not hard for me, but then again, I've been doing it for a while. I honestly couldn't say what the learning curve would be like after this long. x_x

I have over 13,000 products on Zazzle alone. It's the bulk source of my income and has been for three years now. :3

WOW! Never even heard of zazzle before you mentioned it! I took a look at that mug you posted and it's really cute. I can see why someone would love it! If I ever got one, I'd want my fluffy round silkies on it! LOL

Congratulations! He looks so happy, and proud of his win.


I love that first picture. Your little cool house is great idea.


They look like they're getting along well. I'm sure they'll be great companions.

Thank you! I'm pretty sure there was something else in your post... but it didn't show up?? Darn, I can't remember.

But yes, I multi'd the new pictures of the chickens under the baking pan with the water--- thought that was neat! (the post didn't appear)

Okay, so I am so new to turkeys still that I'm hoping someone can explain this behavior. I mentioned a few days ago that every time Ned tries to display for me, Madge runs over and shuts him down. I mean, jumps on him and pecks him - whatever it takes to get him to stop. This morning she was on the wrong side of the fence so Ned started gobbling and displaying and I didn't open the gate to let her back in so I could just enjoy the sight. However as the minutes passed, she got more and more anxious, pacing back and forth looking for a way in, so eventually I took pity on her and let her in, expecting her to run over and shut him down again. Instead, she walked over and started displaying herself! I mean, full-on fan-tail, head-tucked-into-neck displaying. They both started vocalizing like crazy as they walked this circle around each other - really like a dance. So that went on for several minutes and I stood watching and wishing I had my camera with me. But then the fighting started. They were going at it like two tom turkeys, jumping in the air, trying to get feet onto the chest of the other, over and over. The whole time their tails were still fanned and the feathers ruffled up all over them and they continued to vocalize.

Here's my theory for what was happening and please tell me if I'm wrong or close. Madge has always been dominant over Ned. So the reason she was shutting down his displays is to assert dominance. The fighting this morning was because instead of backing down this time, Ned is trying to establish his role as tom turkey (and therefore his dominance over the female). Once the fighting ended, they went back to displaying but this time walked very slowly, side-by-side, down the yard. Ned seemed to be controlling the direction, because if Madge tried to turn away, he would nudge her gently back the way he wanted to go. Eventually they disappeared around the corner of the coop and I couldn't see them any more so I don't know how that ended. Ned is about a month younger, and when I first got them, Madge was larger. He is much bigger than she is now and I think the hormones are starting to kick in and he's realizing he should be dominant over her and start acting like a tom.What do you all think?

Wow, are you sure she is a girl? I have no idea what to think of that! I hear you on the egg cartons. It's like a joke here too-- we are buried in them! Everyone gives them to us and now that hardly anyone is laying, we aren't using them up very fast.

Josie, I hope the turkeys all get along. I sure don't want them fighting. It seems the girls are the ones battling it out right now. I'll bet that changes in breeding season.
Are you going to go back to work in that place where your friends works close to the vet clinic?
I can't even imagine what pent up energy she has. I am dreading when Cloud goes into season and I have to pen her. It will not be a fun time for anyone.

I know there was another couple of your posts too... Sigh. Something about you working outside all day and not getting to do the house chores. Anyway, hope you have a great time seeing your family despite everything!

Just found out that KarenS is very sick and in the hospital. Please pray for her. It doesn't sound good. She said she is doing a little better today and wants to go home but they are going to be doing some tests on her tomorrow. She said she would keep me posted. I'll let you all know if I hear anything else.

Okay, this scares me! I'm really worried about her! Any idea what they thought? She needs to take it easy and let them do their jobs. I will pray for her, for sure!

Well we just got back from a 15 day cruise last night & I'm still rocking from the motion on the ship.

I was worried about my chickens, rabbits, dogs, & other birds pretty much the whole time I was gone. I did end up losing one pullet, my ancona, while I was gone.

Great idea about the flock block! I usually always have those in my pens, but ran out and it just hasn't been on my mind to get another when I get feed. I would love to go on a cruise someday. Not with 3 little kids, though. I don't want to bring them, and there is no one to watch them! It will have to be when they are older, for sure. Sorry about your pullet, that is a shame. But glad everyone else did fine.


Sunflowerparrot--- I multi'd your picture, but it didn't come thru, and anyway just wanted to say that is a really neat picture of the two dogs down by the water! Loved it!

 

[redsoxs]

Hey, fellow Kansans....I've been on BYC awhile - haven't posted much on Consolidated Kansas, however. Maybe I can get into the swing of things.

I actually have a question about light in the coop in the winter. I've read hundreds (and hundreds) of posts on BYC about the pros and cons. Sadly, no closer to making a decision. I like the idea of a steady supply of eggs....but, it also appeals to me when I read fall/winter is nature's way of giving your birds a break. Hopefully some locals can help me out.
1. Will ALL the chickens just stop at some point until the days get longer? Don't want to realize one day..."Hey, I'm out of eggs and have collected an egg all week." If I can get some eggs despite the short days, I don't think I'll add light. If they will just up and quit laying, I might.
2. Does it shorten the laying lifespan to add light?
3. If I haven't added light yet, can I start at any time?
4. If I add light how long before I start to see results?
5. Any other pro/cons?

Thanks to everyone. Sorry to just jump in in the middle of conversations. Thinking of getting turkeys in the spring! Any turkey experts out there? It will be a first for me!!

 

[Hawkeye95]

Hey, fellow Kansans....I've been on BYC awhile - haven't posted much on Consolidated Kansas, however. Maybe I can get into the swing of things.

I actually have a question about light in the coop in the winter. I've read hundreds (and hundreds) of posts on BYC about the pros and cons. Sadly, no closer to making a decision. I like the idea of a steady supply of eggs....but, it also appeals to me when I read fall/winter is nature's way of giving your birds a break. Hopefully some locals can help me out.
1. Will ALL the chickens just stop at some point until the days get longer? Don't want to realize one day..."Hey, I'm out of eggs and have collected an egg all week." If I can get some eggs despite the short days, I don't think I'll add light. If they will just up and quit laying, I might.
2. Does it shorten the laying lifespan to add light?
3. If I haven't added light yet, can I start at any time?
4. If I add light how long before I start to see results?
5. Any other pro/cons?

Thanks to everyone. Sorry to just jump in in the middle of conversations. Thinking of getting turkeys in the spring! Any turkey experts out there? It will be a first for me!!

Someone else will have better responses than me, for sure! But there are a couple I know! So far, I had my silkies lay all thru the winter last year. They didn't lay very much, but they don't lay a whole lot anyway, so I doubt they are a great example. But no, they didn't quit laying and I didn't have them under lights.
Also, I've read and HeChicken has reminded us that chickens are born with a set number of potential eggs. Once they are used up, they are gone. If they lay every single day, the bird will be out of eggs much quicker than a bird that lays only every other day to every 3 days. I have barred rocks that even through a hard molt are still laying every single day-- no let up. I'm guessing they will burn out and be out of eggs a LONG time before my other girls are.




HeChicken, I was trying to find the Ivermetin Injectable and I can't find it cheap anywhere! How much did you pay? Atwoods and TSC want $39.99 for a little bottle of it!!! Yikes!!! But I found it here: (just don't know what shipping is)

http://www.jefferspet.com/injectable-ivermectin/camid/liv/cp/0028146/

$26.95

 

[HEChicken]

I actually have a question about light in the coop in the winter. I've read hundreds (and hundreds) of posts on BYC about the pros and cons. Sadly, no closer to making a decision. I like the idea of a steady supply of eggs....but, it also appeals to me when I read fall/winter is nature's way of giving your birds a break. Hopefully some locals can help me out.
1. Will ALL the chickens just stop at some point until the days get longer? Don't want to realize one day..."Hey, I'm out of eggs and have collected an egg all week." If I can get some eggs despite the short days, I don't think I'll add light. If they will just up and quit laying, I might.
2. Does it shorten the laying lifespan to add light?
3. If I haven't added light yet, can I start at any time?
4. If I add light how long before I start to see results?
5. Any other pro/cons?

Thanks to everyone. Sorry to just jump in in the middle of conversations. Thinking of getting turkeys in the spring! Any turkey experts out there? It will be a first for me!!

Not a turkey expert - I have one pair of Royal Palms but have only had them a few months. I am really attached already though and will never be without turkeys now.

To your questions:

1. ALL the chickens will not stop laying at once. Pullets in their first year of laying tend to lay throughout the first winter. Older hens cease laying in fall to molt and may not start up again until the days get longer. However they stagger their molts so its not like they all just quit the same week. Typically laying just slows down for me - I almost never go a whole day with no eggs, although there are sad days I only collect 1-2.
2. I don't know if there are any studies (probably are) about shortened life span but here are my thoughts on the subject. Hen's body's NEED the period without laying to recoup - producing eggs in the quantities they do, requires a lot of effort, and they need time when they are not laying to regain strength and vitality so they can start the next laying season in good health. Tricking them into continuing to lay at a time of year when Mother Nature tells them to stop, may gain you a few more eggs in the near-term but it will certainly mean that hen will not lay for as long as one who is allowed to take a break (due to the finite number of eggs she CAN lay in her lifetime). In addition, IMHO, forcing them to continue to lay rather than take a break is asking for egg-laying related problems such as egg-bound, expelling an ovary and so on. Those things do have a high chance of reducing the life span of the hen so my simple answer to your question is that yes, adding lights probably does reduce the overall life span.
3. Yes.
4. I don't know the answer to this one, having never done it myself.
5. I probably addressed more than you asked in #2

HeChicken, I was trying to find the Ivermetin Injectable and I can't find it cheap anywhere! How much did you pay? Atwoods and TSC want $39.99 for a little bottle of it!!! Yikes!!! But I found it here: (just don't know what shipping is)

http://www.jefferspet.com/injectable-ivermectin/camid/liv/cp/0028146/

$26.95

I believe I did pay the $40 price at Atwoods. It was a case of, I was there, I hadn't researched to find out if I could get it cheaper online and figured even if I could, by the time I paid shipping, it would narrow the price difference anyway. As it turned out, I was very glad I bought it on the spot because Ned was going downhill so fast at the time and though I didn't realize at the time it was worms, (his dramatic recovery started within 24 hours of starting the Ivermectin), I now shudder to think about if I hadn't got it that day and had waited for it to arrive by mail, would he even have still been alive by the time it arrived?

However in your case, if it is just a preventative measure rather than a crisis and you have time to order, you will probably be happy to save the dollars.

A little does go a long way. I bought the 50ml bottle but only needed 12ml in 3 gallons of water to treat my flock. So one bottle is good for 3 applications for me on 50 birds. If I think about it like that, it isn't so bad.....

 

[HEChicken]

Oh dear, since I didn't multi, I completely forgot the rest of what I was going to say.

I am so upset about Karen being so ill - my thoughts are with her and her family, for a speedy and full recovery.

Trish, good to have you back and glad you had such a good trip. Sorry about the Ancona but glad everyone else was good while you were gone, especially the dogs staying around even though you weren't coming and going from the house.

Oh Hawkeye, I meant to say, yes, I am very sure Madge is a hen - I have heard other people say they've seen their hens display, but I guess I wasn't expecting it to be such a full-on deal. Even with the display though, the differences in gender were obvious. Ned gets bright red and his snood grows from a little pea sitting on his forehead to a dangly bit that is longer than his beak (it shrinks back up when he stops displaying). Madge's snood really didn't enlarge and she stayed pale pink in all her dangly parts (which aren't nearly as voluminous as Ned's anyway).

I'm going to try to remember to take the camera out tomorrow morning and get some pics of Ned displaying.

Kansas Prairie, yours are way ahead of mine in development, it sounds like, as Madge hatched in April and Ned probably around May or so. He is really only just now growing into his tom turkey role, I think because he was so ill. I had heard him gobble a few times and seen him display on just one day before he got sick but that was many weeks ago now. Although I saw immediate improvement in his condition when I started the Ivermectin, it has taken him this long to get back to full health and resume maturing so he is just now starting to gobble when he hears or sees something unusual, and to display for his hen.

 

[chicken danz]

Hey, fellow Kansans....I've been on BYC awhile - haven't posted much on Consolidated Kansas, however. Maybe I can get into the swing of things.

I actually have a question about light in the coop in the winter. I've read hundreds (and hundreds) of posts on BYC about the pros and cons. Sadly, no closer to making a decision. I like the idea of a steady supply of eggs....but, it also appeals to me when I read fall/winter is nature's way of giving your birds a break. Hopefully some locals can help me out.
1. Will ALL the chickens just stop at some point until the days get longer? Don't want to realize one day..."Hey, I'm out of eggs and have collected an egg all week." If I can get some eggs despite the short days, I don't think I'll add light. If they will just up and quit laying, I might.
2. Does it shorten the laying lifespan to add light?
3. If I haven't added light yet, can I start at any time?
4. If I add light how long before I start to see results?
5. Any other pro/cons?

Thanks to everyone. Sorry to just jump in in the middle of conversations. Thinking of getting turkeys in the spring! Any turkey experts out there? It will be a first for me!!

Okay here are some more opinions. I agree that chickens need to take a break in egg laying but not all of them do. Some breeds keep laying regardless. Normally when a hen stops laying after her first year she goes into molt. Molt actually uses up all the energy she has for eggs laying so she stops at that time. Light changes and changes in diet if they are free ranging make a chicken do this. She really doesn't get much of a rest during molt.
I let my chickens do their molt, then I put the lights in. I do it one of two ways. I either use red flood lights which also give off warmth or I put the lights on timers to come on about 3AM so they get between 14-16 hours of light a day. Once they molt and get their rest they become egg factories again until the hot summer weather slows them down.
I add more to their diet when I use lights so they get the extra nutrients they need.
You can read that once the process starts that adding light won't help. That is bunk. You just need to time it when they have completed a molt and are in shape for more laying.
If you notice, most hatcheries start selling chicks about Jan 1st. In order to do that they would almost have to introduce light by the beginning of December.
Once you introduce light again it takes around 2 weeks for egg production to pick up.
If your chickens are young birds they can probably handle introducing light fairly easily. Just be sure that they are on layer rations and have some fattening treats like BOSS or added corn to their diet.
If I had a group of 2012 birds that I wanted to lay, I would start by adding light on a timer. Start at about 6:00 AM for a couple days, and move it up about 30 minutes every 2 days. It won't be a shock to their system that way.
Yes chickens only have a certain number of eggs to produce. You cold shorten the number of years they lay but that won't necessarily shorten their life.
Nutrition is the key in all this. If your birds don't get what they need for nutrition you are just taxing them and endangering their health.

Well I am a very unhappy person. I have had my turkey in the fridge for 3 days and it still is frozen hard as a rock. I should have just thawed it like normal I was going to put it in the brine tonight but there's no way I can. Just my luck. I also spent the afternoon outside putting hardware cloth along the bottom of the wild turkeys pen. Anytime they get upset they rip their necks up sticking them through the wire. I was going to move the blue slate turkeys out next to them and decided I'd had better line their pen before I upset them again. Silly Tom turkey tore the heck out of neck and had it all bloody just from me working out there. I hope I have the problem fixed now.
I will let you all know when I have more information on Karen. I forgot to ask what hospital she is in so I texted her and haven't gotten an answer. She was having trouble with her phone in the hospital.