Controversial Discussions

[Fierlin1182]

We have a rainwater tank, and with this new technology being advertised we may be getting solar panels too. (Last time we got an assessment, our roof turned out to be too small).
It's unfortunate how a lot of people these days don't fully appreciate where their food comes from, or don't know what to do with themselves in a power outage. Things like agriculture are barely touched on in school these days. Because farming has become highly mechanised and the need for people to enter into the industry has decreased, students are increasingly being channelled into more modern, more profitable sectors like technology. While these things are important for progress as it's defined nowadays, I agree it has definitely resulted in a greater divide between city and country, and some potentially regrettable knowledge gaps in the younger generations.
(Although I do know older people who don't have any idea about rural matters either!)

A lot of people living in the city have no choice about self sustainability, however. We are lucky to have a garden. The units on the neighbouring plot have no garden. What about people in larger cities who must live in apartments? We are able to have cities now because the farms can provide for them. There is no need and no impending need for everyone to grow their own food and live in a rural setting. I believe this characterises a great advancement for civilisation. Cities are impressive centres of productivity, innovation, culture and education. I personally think the world is a better place for its cities, despite the admitted disadvantages which come with a high population density (crowding, pollution, crime etc.). Although it's important for people to know something about producing food and fuel for themselves, it's not and I hope it never will be necessary for every person to hold these concerns as their first priority.

 

[Farmer Mike S]

I finally got the chance to read through some of your other responses fierlin1182, and you definetlely point out some key things that even I never realized in my other posts. We do need a society balanced by our stereotypical city and country life. There truly is no "better" lifestyle the way our current society stands, it's more option based, like I prefer country life, but you may prefer city life. It's actually good in a way that there's no better lifestyle because we need people in both. There are definetlely stereotypes in both, like city people living like zombies, not getting anything out of life; and stuff like country people being a bunch of dumb hicks. But those are just stereotypes and people who really say that are dumb themselves. Like I brought up earlier, the country people will be the ones to survive in some crazy economic collapse, but we will hope that never happens. There are also some issues with overpopulation too, but that's a whole other issue.

The lack of interest and education of agriculture is definetlely an uprising issue. It's not even just that either, this is an issue in all the trades too. In my high school, they had 2 woodshops (carpentry), an electrical shop, a few drafting classes, and a metal shop class back in the day. When I graduated, all that was left was 1 woodshop class, and my senior year (this year), the state changed the curriculum to be more technology oriented. We do have votech programs but those are highly looked down upon for some reason, and the school reccomends against it. Which don't even get me started on our school system; I hate how they tell us what to think instead of how to think, and teach us stuff without applying it to real life. But anyway, our culture is so against the trades of any sort nowadays. No matter what, you still need a roof over your head, food to eat, your car fixed, etc. You can't eliminate these people from our society. I would say a good 2-5% of my fellow graduates are doing something trade/agriculture related right out of high school, and a good 70% are going for "business". Sure, business people are important, but there's only so much we need. I feel like there will be a shortage of people in the skilled trades in the near future, even with the border jumpers. I actually respect those kind of people because it fascinates me how a lot of them are willing to work so hard for so little pay. A lot of us Americans complain about not getting top salary when we start out.

Something else I was just thinking about is that even "off the grid" lifestyles aren't all that self sustainable. A lot of these have solar panels, which is really cool, I plan to have solar panels. I still have to rely on other people to make the solar panels though, I don't think I will ever know how to make an efficient solar panel, especially with natural materials. This actually loops around to show how I would be reliant in the "city people" to design and produce the solar panel for my country house. It was interesting to think about...

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

To fix the education problem, one major thing this country (the US) needs to fix is the way it runs it's student loan "business". Frankly, it's too expensive for many people to attend higher education schools and the interest rates on loans after graduation is astronomical. I haven't yet figured out how I'm paying back all of my loans, and I had a full scholarship in undergrad. This graduate degree will be the killer. However, even though I took out just enough to cover housing in undergrad, that loan still costs me about $450 a month. That is crazy!

 

[hemet dennis]

Have any of you heard of the Mike Rowe works ?

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2012/09/the-first-four-years-are-the-hardest/

 

[Fierlin1182]

Wow, that does sound like a killer loan. Here in Australia we've got something pretty awesome called HECS, which is pretty much one massive interest-free loan from the government encompassing tuition fees, student services fees and, if you opt for it, overseas exchange fees. It doesn't even have to be repaid until the grduate's salary reaches a certain threshold. However, Tony Abbott wants to privatise HECS and scrap the startup scholarship for students who aren't as well off. He thinks university is losing its reputation as an institution for the elite. Boo!!!

 

[Fierlin1182]

My school produces a lot of the university type. I suppose in some eyes we are pretty useless as human beings, but I think we're awesome anyway. Each year, there are less than 2% of graduates who go straight into the workforce. Some years there are none. This year we had 10 go into engineering at uni (including me), 15 go into law and quite a few into medicine or nursing. There are a couple doing vet science, including one girl who's taking a gap year to go ranching in the Flinders Ranges. (City stereotypes can't get more wrong at times )

Skilled tradespeople are some of the most important in any society. They definitely shouldn't be considered as an inferior class of people, although unfortunately stereotypes are as prevalent as ever. There's always someone looking down on someone else, which is ridiculous when one thinks about how every working person makes a valuable contribution somehow. And even some non-working people too, such as new mothers or students. This does not, of course, involve those working in illegal trades such as drugs or human trafficking, but I think does include those working in the ‘informal’ sector of any country. The willingness there to work hard even for meagre pay is very admirable, and it’s unfortunate that some people are faced with no other choice. I think it’s important that something be done to improve these people’s wages, often deplorable working conditions and say in how they’re treated by employers or the government. (For example, some slums in cities such as Mumbai are demolished for capitalists to build prestigious developments, while the workers in them are relocated to high rise apartments miles away from the city, totally inadequate for sustaining the economy that usually operates within these communities. They’re offered no additional help to re-establish their livelihoods.)

People not usually accustomed to doing so would have to do “dirty work” in the case of this economic meltdown. There would be total chaos at first and I’ve no doubt many casualties, but if all the city folk could be convinced and allowed to go into the fields and help get food production and supply up and running again, maybe as small communities at first, we might make it through as a species and be able to rebuild after that. (I haven’t given this subject a great deal of thought. Maybe I'm thinking about the end of crude oil, that's always been a morbid fascination of mine, lol. There’d definitely be problems with getting people to co-operate in a peaceful and productive manner, and preventing exploitation of the system. Perhaps people wouldn’t be willing to let past accounts go without settling the score, and many wouldn’t be able to handle the lifestyle changes.)

Yes, the country life would win out in the end due to it being the only plausible choice while some semblance of an economy were being established again. The city provides the “advancements” and “progress” we see in the world, but we shouldn’t forget that it’s all built on the foundations of the country, and if we were sent back to square one that’s where we’d have to start from. The country provides the necessities and the city enriches the world with everything else. There are so many “layers” of urban life these days (the changes in the past hundred years alone have been monumental) that for a lot of people the country and its importance are obscured. There can be rural communities without urban ones, but not vice versa. However, I’m sure that the majority of people would agree with me that the world is a better place for its cities, and they are making a huge contribution to both our history and our future.

(If only because a majority of the world population is urban dwelling. ;-) - just kidding!)

 

[cluckcluckluke]

Wow, that does sound like a killer loan. Here in Australia we've got something pretty awesome called HECS, which is pretty much one massive interest-free loan from the government encompassing tuition fees, student services fees and, if you opt for it, overseas exchange fees. It doesn't even have to be repaid until the grduate's salary reaches a certain threshold. However, Tony Abbott wants to privatise HECS and scrap the startup scholarship for students who aren't as well off. He thinks university is losing its reputation as an institution for the elite. Boo!!!

I hate Tony Abbott

!!!!!!!

Can't believe he wants to build a three lane harbor on our reef!!! What a twat!

 

[Fierlin1182]

Wow, that does sound like a killer loan. Here in Australia we've got something pretty awesome called HECS, which is pretty much one massive interest-free loan from the government encompassing tuition fees, student services fees and, if you opt for it, overseas exchange fees. It doesn't even have to be repaid until the grduate's salary reaches a certain threshold. However, Tony Abbott wants to privatise HECS and scrap the startup scholarship for students who aren't as well off. He thinks university is losing its reputation as an institution for the elite. Boo!!!

I hate Tony Abbott !!!!!!!

Can't believe he wants to build a three lane harbor on our reef!!! What a twat!

Yes, and there's that too!
Him and his entourage of bigoted monarchists. I can't believe they're going to get away with planning the national curriculum to suit their own narrow-minded interests. They also want to get rid of national parks for mines, cut down every last scrap of forest in Tasmania and marginalise everyone who isn't a rich white Australian male. (they're willing to make an exception for one particular rich white Australian female )

ONE TERM TONY!!!



I would like to stand corrected on one point I made during my previous post, about the scrapping of the start-up scholarships. I was wrong about this issue. They were going to be scrapped, but due to the sheer number of students and members of the general public protesting against it the senate backed down a few months ago.

I just found that out at the rally against education cuts. The speeches at those events are always awesome, so I go along to listen...

 

[cluckcluckluke]

Quote: Yes, and there's that too!
Him and his entourage of bigoted monarchists. I can't believe they're going to get away with planning the national curriculum to suit their own narrow-minded interests. They also want to get rid of national parks for mines, cut down every last scrap of forest in Tasmania and marginalise everyone who isn't a rich white Australian male. (they're willing to make an exception for one particular rich white Australian female

)

ONE TERM TONY!!!



I would like to stand corrected on one point I made during my previous post, about the scrapping of the start-up scholarships. I was wrong about this issue. They were going to be scrapped, but due to the sheer number of students and members of the general public protesting against it the senate backed down a few months ago.

I just found that out at the rally against education cuts.

The speeches at those events are always awesome, so I go along to listen...

hahah, that first line

!

The whole curriculum ???? We are so screwed

.
Yeah I heard that he is taking down the license or what ever that defines a national park and making it open to all who want it ( mines in particular ). So stupid, it's like he's trying to F Australia up.

What's this is TAS?


Will he not just get voted out though?

 

[Fierlin1182]

Quote from Tony Abbott: "Maybe Australia has too many national parks."

Maybe Australia has too many politicians actually capable of executing antiquated, irrational and short-sighted thought processes. And then we vote them into power.

(Although the alternative was Kevin Rudd )

Critical thinking, multiculturalism, Asian languages and Aboriginal history are being discouraged or removed altogether from the curriculum. I don't assume maths and science have been attacked in the same way, because the government needs its future minions to be able to design and build its weapons of war, so it can invade other countries under the guise of peacekeeping.

He will get voted out. (At least many are saying, although the opinion polls don't show Labor doing any better). Dissatisfaction with Tony Abbott is rising. Labor seems to be getting its act together under new leadership. Many people are infuriated by some statements from Tony and his henchmen. They're not going to be able to stay in power with 1% of the votes come 2016.