Cooler ice only after process

[Mike Conowingo]

Processed 20 x today. Finished 8:30 am added more ice and never added water.I did add ice to all cavity packing full of ice. I go and check 12 hours later and ice didnt really melt enough to submerge birds. I checked temp on 4 birds near the top and all about 47°. I just filled with water and more ice. Should I be concerned with bacteria as it was probably a slow cool down? Should I add salt to water ? I really dont want to lose everything now. I also dont want anyone sick. Birds are stiff too. Ones at bottom were alot colder closer to 35°. There isnt a foul smell. I would imagine this is a similar method to refrigerate after butcher where the cold air helped.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Also when people age wild game birds some hang pheasants at 50f undressed.

That's what I was going to mention.

You've run into an issue that comes with doing a bunch at a time. It takes time to cool them and time to freeze them. In the meantime they can warm a fridge or freezer up above where it should be. I think you are OK but treat it as a learning curve. Maybe add some water next time, spread them out into more coolers, or maybe stir them up after a few hours. Not sure what would work best for you. But lots of ice. Much ice.

 

[Mike Conowingo]

Thanks for the all the replies.

It was my son and I first time. We started saturday morning at 5:30 and finished last bird at 8:30. I added more ice and stuffed all the cavities with ice. We cleaned everything up and I wanted to add water to cooler but completely slipped my mind. As we were in full clean up mode and disposing of all the waste. My wife bringing me a 2nd cup of coffee and being soaked from the process and a nice hard rain for over 40 mins. All we talked of was a shower and then a nap. When I woke I never thought to check the coolers as they were in shade. Figured they are doing their thing. Well after 12 hours I wondered if more ice was needed. I opened the cooler to see plenty of ice but no water... Yikes.. so I added water and checked temps of some birds.. I really think I got lucky by stuffing the cavities with ice.

I will most certainly remember the water next time for sure.

I did heat shrink the birds yesterday and weighed the birds. Average weight was 7 pounds. Birds were 9.5 weeks.

I will cook 1 tonight that I let rest in the fridge. I sure hope it taste good.

 

[bag12day]

40 would be better but I used to have a fridge that wouldn't go below 50... cooking will kill bacteria anyway.

Also when people age wild game birds some hang pheasants at 50f undressed.

I own a restaurant and without going into the food science part of it there are several bacteria resultant toxins that are not killed from cooking, once they're there they're there and no amount of cooking renders them safe.
So please don't make your family sick believing that cooking something makes it safe. I agree with the Pheasant comment and I do quail too but always guts out and as I stated below 50F basically stops growth. Wild game birds are different than poultry however; as a deer is different from a pig.

Thanks for the all the replies.

Well after 12 hours I wondered if more ice was needed. I opened the cooler to see plenty of ice but no water... Yikes.. so I added water and checked temps of some birds.. I really think I got lucky by stuffing the cavities with ice.

I will most certainly remember the water next time for sure.
I will cook 1 tonight that I let rest in the fridge. I sure hope it taste good.

Almost all bacteria growth is a function of time and temp and dealing with in both cooling ( 12 hours at 110-75 degrees is much worse than 12 hours at 60-47 degrees) and Cooking.
I will eat black bear meat (which is known for Trichinosis) cooked Sous vide at 130 degrees for 3 hours. It takes approx. 1 hour of 130 degree heat to kill it vs 1 second at 150 degrees. and the same principal is true for salmonella from the chickens and turkey I raise here I will eat cooked at 138-140 for 2 hours.

Basically if you told me your chickens were 47 degrees for 2 days after passing from 80-60 in 4 hours, I would have no problem eating them as bacteria growth basically stops at 50F but the Govmt recommends 40F for long term storage. But if you told me they were like that for 7 days welllllll….I would also be more concerned if you were puncturing guts or had crap on them while cleaning but if your processing was clean then no worries at all from my end!
In the end you learned a lesson and I will echo what several others have said re Ice, water and bit of salt to bring temp down some and it makes a nicer bird that has been pre-brined IMO. The ice water serves the same function as a fan in moving the "warm" more rapidly from the surface by covering 100% of the surface with 30F temp vs ice only touching 10% of the surface.
If you and your son did 20 birds in 3 hours my hat is off to you

 

[bag12day]

I am always glad to learn from people with information from their experience. I wouldn't want to keep giving people dangerous information about cooking killing bacteria when the toxins could still be a problem.
Although I must be lucky or have a good immune system. I have eaten things kept on the counter too long that I would not recommend to people. But I grew up with the power being out regularly and using the spring as a fridge like my grandparents. LOL ...they didn't have electricity until the 1950s

I don't want to completely derail the thread but you hit the nail on the head with something akin to the corona discussion re "viral load" with bacteria as well. I guess it's what I was trying to point out to @Mike Conowingo with his original question. Will his 12 hour 47F chicken have more bacteria than a chicken immed chilled to 35F within 30 Mins absolutely, but not enough to be harmful to someone who isn't really immunocompromised.
I believe as @Parront stated We all start with chickens raised in a more "clean environment", process them carefully, and package them ourselves. Your body can stand a small or even a lot of exposure to most harmful bacteria before it becomes sickening or critical. Some are deadly in small doses like the Botulinum toxin but those are exceptions. That varies person to person and I, like you alluded to, would eat a leftover pork chop or fried catfish fillet at 5AM on the way to go work tobacco fields left on the counter from the night before. As a teenager prob not smart but prob not an issue either but as my 54 year old self maybe and I certainly wouldn't give that to my 1 year old granddaughter today... My wife is retired from 30 years in the pharmaceutical industry (science and laboratory side) so between her and my son they have learned me a few things LOL. My Business degrees didn't teach me a lot there! I am trying to edit and gonna post up some picts and video of us killing our 54 Kosher Kings and Red rangers several months ago in the meat bird forum for some lessons we learned and maybe can help some others.

 

[bag12day]

Green with envy here! Big Sears chest freezer was my best, now only small extra frig in the guest house.

Yeah my wife is at wits end, I have regular stainless fridge/ bottom freezer in the house and large Commercial chest and Commercial standup freezer and a one door comm. fridge in the sunroom and another old wild game aging plain fridge /freezer combo where I dry age my Deer, Bear, and Beef Primals. I keep frozen bait shad for catfishing in the freezer portion. I have another 25 Cu.ft Chest on order for the 25 turkeys we will have come Nov. I raise a few beef cows and slaughter one with my in-laws every other year and as of last year I am trading some of our organic pastured chickens for a pig raised on pasture/woods and the spent grain from a brewery in Ashville NC. Its a fraternity brother of my sons and he has a family that loves our chickens and eggs so its a great deal for all concerned.
What you said about the chicken is the same thing with the pork and beef we raise as well as my wild game for the most part. I know where its been, what it ate, how it died and how it gotten taken care of... and in large part we are raising our own "raw produce" now too. Lettuces, cabbages, root veggies, kales, collards, etc cause of all the E coli food illnesses and issues recently. I want to be in control of my food supply not mega mart.

 

[cajuncluckerswla]

I want to be in control of my food supply not mega mart.

Amen to that! It's got to the point that with many store bought items my body suffers. I think it might be because I have a sulfur allergy and that many preservatives they use have some amount sulfur in them.

I have recently discovered the heaven that is goat's milk. Where it has been hiding all my life I do not know because it was never in the stores, but thanks to all of this virus stuff our local goat dairy has started to advertise their products. They have a customer for life now.... lol!!!

 

[Molpet]

40 would be better but I used to have a fridge that wouldn't go below 50... cooking will kill bacteria anyway.

Also when people age wild game birds some hang pheasants at 50f undressed.

 

[bag12day]

I am curious as which these are... so I know what symptoms to look for. .. the only food I have gotten sick from was restaurant food, and it sickened most people that ate there that day..... salmonella

Staph and Botulism are two off the top of my head that heat (normal cooking) will not kill.
There are others and before the Chemistry grammar police (My son has a degree in Chem/Biology in College and takes me to task frequently) come along I will make this distinction. Bacteria of kinds above release toxins and the bacteria itself can be killed but not before they leave their deathly calling card via those toxins and that cannot be rendered inert by normal heat.

 

[bag12day]

I was wondering if botulism was one. Thank you

Sure thing and for the record Salmonella is probably the most common foodborne illness in restaurants and its fairly easy to prevent by proper handling cross contamination mostly. I typed and re typed the first quote to you about killing your family because I didn't want to come off wrong or harsh or to be that guy but food safety is very important to me as you can imagine. Thanks for taking it in the context it was intended and as a side note being fairly new at posting here ( long time lurker) I absolutely love how the vast majority of people are very respectful and caring even if they disagree with you. Great place to belong.