Coop, Run and Garden Location

[nminusyplusm]

LG, great advice! You make me wish I'd known you before I built my coop and garden!

 

[Hokum Coco]

wondering if there is any concern about having the coop and run too close to a vegetable garden?

I move my run with the start of every vegetable growing season. Then plant my garden in the vacated spot. My chickens kill all the grass in no time. I have a lawn tractor with grass catcher that I empty the grass clippings into the run all summer long. It is a symbiotic relationship where everyone seems to benefit.

As long as your chickens can not eat your garden plants you will be fine.

Just for the record my grandfather let his chickens free range. On of the favourite places chickens like to forage was the horse and cow manure piles.

 

[Red-Stars-in-RI]

Another option would be to have the garden on one side, run on the other, and coop in the middle. After your growing season, simply switch which is which, so you're always planting into last season's run and the chickens have last year's garden to scratch up and enjoy.

In addition to giving you some great organic material for the garden plants, this would also reduce risk of insect pests or plant diseases overwintering. Also, the chickens do most of the work!

 

[CorvusFarm]

As long your growing space is fenced, you can have the chickens as close as you like.

The bigger issue is where you compost the manure. You don't want to put it directly on the plants. If you're just using a small bin composter for a handful of chickens, no big deal. But a larger flock with heavier clean out requires a little more planning.

 

[Wise Woman]

We have a very small property and a long narrow lot with our cottage at the back of the lot. There are also 2 sheds and a carport along the right hand side of the property. There is also a shed on the left side of our property across from the carport. So that doesn't leave a lot of room for much else. So our potager will be right next to our chicken coop and covered run. I hope to let them free range in there at certain times of the year. It will also be handy to have them close for composting purposes.

 

[L.D.Sewell]

OOOOHHHH!!!! Excitement!!!!! Info, please???? What is your general location? How big an area are you setting up for your garden? For your coop? For your run? How many birds to you hope to have? Are you new to chickens? New to gardening?

What is your soil like? Is your yard void of trees, or do you have to work around lots of shade and tree root issues.

General recommendation is for 4 s.f. in coop and 10 s.f. in run per bird.

There are lots of different ways you can set things up, and each way has it's own advantage/disadvantages.

Tell us how much room you have to work with, what you have for soil, how much available sun, how many chickens you want, and how much time you intend to spend gardening, and we'll be happy to help you out! Any physical limitations to gardening? Back issues? Do you intend to use a tiller?

Suggested reading: Any of the books written by Ruth Stout, Lasagna gardening by Patricia Lanza, view the Back to Eden movie. You can do a google search for it. Also, this book is very helpful for flock management: https://www.amazon.com/Small-Scale-Poultry-Flock-All-Natural-Approach/dp/1603582908

I am absolutely passionate about gardening, and my flock is an integral part of that passion. I would LOVE to help you with your planning stages so that your garden/coop/run can work well with the space you have.

Immediate first suggestion is this: consider deep litter in both coop and run. This will provide LOTS of fantastic compost for your yard. Make your coop bigger than you think you will need. IMO, 4 x 8, with walls 6 - 8' high is an absolute minimum, no matter how few birds you intend to have. If you have a very small flock, the extra space will be enjoyed by your birds, and it will make your flock management a breeze instead of a headache.

I would place the coop on the back North side of your chosen area, with space for a run/garden on both the East and West ends of the coop. You could have a pop door on each end of the coop. The first year, you would use the East end for a chicken run, and the West end for the garden. When you finish harvesting your garden, you could then open the garden, and close off the current run. This would allow the soil to rest in the old run, while the birds glean the weeds, left over plants and insects from the old garden.

Thanks for all the great info! To answer your questions I am in south central Virginia, the area for the garden, coop and run will be approximately 70 x 90 feet so about 6300 sf give or take a bit (off the top of my head without actually measuring it at the moment... so may be off but it is a decent sized area I think) most of it is on a gentle slope/hill that has full sun most of the day all year around. The soil is workable with hand tools relatively easily - thought about a tiller - but since it seems more workable than I initially thought I think I will skip the tiller for now and do it all the old-fashioned way. Not sure about how many chickens - thinking maybe 6 to 12 but haven't decided on the exact number yet. New to chickens? Yes and No... Every member of my family that I can think of - for the most part - or most of them anyway, had chickens for eggs when I was growing up (a looooonnnnnnng time ago...) and I grew up on an 1800 acre farm where we raised livestock including 18k chickens at a time. We always had a huge personal garden - which I took care of daily - though it was my family's knowledge and my labor really. However, that was many many moons ago. So, in reality, I am starting new with very little current knowledge or skill in gardening and about zero knowledge regarding chickens - but I am very excited and hoping to learn and do a lot in 2018 - so we will see how it all turns out. As far as trees - we are blessed to have some huge trees on our property, oaks, pines, maples, and a few others that are mainly close to and near the house and the other side of the property away from the garden area. There are about 4 large pines toward the north-west side of the garden area but they do not affect the sun for the area... though I am considering putting the coop near these trees - don't know whether that is a good idea or not or whether chickens have any issues with pine needles and pine cones or not??? Back and health issues ?? Currently and thankfully no - and I am blessed every day to be in far better shape than I probably should be at this age, especially considering what I have put my body through over the years. Thanks for your recommendations on the books.

 

[L.D.Sewell]

As long your growing space is fenced, you can have the chickens as close as you like.

The bigger issue is where you compost the manure. You don't want to put it directly on the plants. If you're just using a small bin composter for a handful of chickens, no big deal. But a larger flock with heavier clean out requires a little more planning.

I have a mulch/brush pile area adjacent to where I plan to put the garden and the coop and was thinking I'd just start a new pile there for the cleanout from the coop - then let it sit and weather for a year and then use it on the garden??? Not sure if a year in the weather is long enough or not - still researching - so any thoughts and ideas are all appreciated...

 

[lazy gardener]

Thanks for all the great info! south central Virginia, the area for the garden, coop and run will be approximately 70 x 90 feet. most of it is on a gentle slope/hill that has full sun most of the day all year around. The soil is workable with hand tools relatively easily. Chickens - thinking maybe 6 to 12 but haven't decided on the exact number yet. So, in reality, I am starting new with very little current knowledge or skill in gardening and about zero knowledge regarding chickens - but I am very excited and hoping to learn and do a lot in 2018 - so we will see how it all turns out.

As far as trees - we are blessed to have some huge trees on our property, oaks, pines, maples, and a few others that are mainly close to and near the house and the other side of the property away from the garden area. There are about 4 large pines toward the north-west side of the garden area but they do not affect the sun for the area... though I am considering putting the coop near these trees - don't know whether that is a good idea or not or whether chickens have any issues with pine needles and pine cones or not??? Back and health issues ?? Currently and thankfully no - and I am blessed every day to be in far better shape than I probably should be at this age, especially considering what I have put my body through over the years. Thanks for your recommendations on the books.

70 x 90 would be a great space for your chicken flock and garden. Gentle slope, especially if high side is on North, and low side is on South is fantastic. Gives good drainage. And a South slope warms up more and catches more light so you can plant earlier in the spring. Big issue with trees is that their roots can invade the garden and suck all the moisture and nutrients out of your soil Roots will travel farther underground than the drip line of the tree. Pine needles and cones not an issue for the chickens. Beware falling branches in storms if you park the chickens under the trees! All the leaves from your trees will give you a head start on mulch/compost for your chicken coop and your chicken run, and your garden.

If you go the tractor route, some folks make the tractor the same size as their raised garden beds so the tractor can easily be attached to the top of the bed (or sit inside it's footprint) or move between the beds. My garden is too crowded to allow a tractor in it during the growing season.

One consideration of having the garden and chicken run very close together is this: If the run is a dry and dusty affair, there will be airborne chicken dander and even feces, even in an outdoor environment. Therefore, while I would not have issue with any crops which grow above ground and need to be cooked growing immediately adjacent to the run (squash) I would not grow any crops that are intended to be eaten raw, or even crops that grow underground (salad greens, carrots) immediately adjacent to the run. Keeping a DL run will cut way down on the risk of air borne, or even soil run off contaminants being an issue.

 

[CorvusFarm]

Composting is a whole issue unto itself. I do a modified rotation, and my compost is ready anywhere from 3-30 days, depending on what is in it.

Chickens, however, are great to have on the compost pile, as they are great at scratching it, aerating it, and adding their own material to it. The downside is flies. The more of any animal you have on the property, the more you have to deal with poop. And a good compost heap will attract a lot of flies. I have my compost pile on the far side of two pastures, with my coop and running in between those same pastures. It makes it easy for me to get my clean-out to the heap, and also my compost into my fields. But there is plenty of room between the elements to drive the tractor and do the work of the farm.

And as was said above, wind direction and runoff is something else to consider. In the end, you can overthink a lot of it. I think you'll be fine with your coop/run next to your garden. Just be mindful of how you'll put what where. And have a plan in case you figure out a couple months into things that you need to reconfigure. That's what happens to me. I can plan things out well enough. But it isn't until actually putting it into action that I can see things happening in real time, and sometimes only then will I recognize a better way to go about it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are all kinds of different ways to do compost. Some people work at it pretty hard, I’m more laid back in my approach. You can make it challenging or easy, but you get different rewards. If you carefully balance the greens (nitrogen) and the browns (carbon), keep the moisture right, and turn it regularly you can get a batch finished pretty quickly. If you just pile it up and walk away it will eventually turn to compost but it can take a lot longer. In Virginia you should get enough moisture for that to happen on its own in a reasonable time but in really dry country it may take years. I know one guy in Idaho that digs a trench and buries his materials so it gets enough moisture to break down. We all have our own conditions to deal with.

When the stuff breaks down it can heat up enough to kill weed and grass seeds in the middle of the pile. Just how hot it gets will depend on the ratio of greens and browns, plus how much moisture is in it. You do not have to be very precise about this ratio, it will heat up some even if you are well away from the ideal ratio. If you turn it regularly it will go through cycles of heating up and cooling down plus you are mixing in the seeds that did not get cooked the first time. The more you turn it the faster it breaks down and the more of those seeds you get, but even if you never turn it you will still get usable compost. It can contain seeds. I avoid putting noxious weeds in it to avoid the risk of planting weed seeds I don’t want.

Moisture is pretty important. If it is too dry the bugs that break it down cannot live or multiply. If it gets too wet for very long the bugs change from aerobic to anaerobic. Aerobic bugs use air to breathe, Anaerobic do not. If the composting action is Aerobic, the compost pile has a nice earthy smell. If it goes anaerobic it can turn slimy and stink. It will still break down into usable compost but the quality of that compost isn’t as high. As always there is a window of how much actual moisture you need but the target has been described as soaking a sponge and then wringing it out as much as you can, just slightly damp. When the weather sets in wet you can’t do a lot about that moisture level, but if it drains reasonably well it usually doesn’t get bad. In my dry summers I sometimes water my compost pile to keep it working. Don’t let my scare you away with this, as long as you don’t dig into it when it’s wet it’s usually not that bad. But if it starts to stink it’s too wet.

Do not put your compost pile where tree roots can grow up in it. Roots make it a pain to dig it out plus they use some of the nutrients you want on your garden. It’s still usable compost and a lot better than nothing but just watch those tree roots.

You mentioned putting branches in there. Wood will eventually break down but it’s a lot slower than other materials. Part of how fast it breaks down will depend on size but also on variety. Catalpa will break down a lot faster than oak for example. Branches will make it a pain to turn by hand too. Even if you wait a year you will probably find a lot of that wood still hasn’t broken down. If you don’t turn it some of the larger stuff on the outside of that pile will not break down. I get a lot of peach or plum pits in mine that just don’t break down in a year. Occasionally I break the rules and bury certain animals or animal parts in mine. The larger bones don’t break down. I made a screen out of ½” hardware cloth that I screen my compost through when I harvest it. Anything that goes through I consider compost. The rest may get tossed or I may use it in my next batch. I try to avoid getting limbs in my compost pile.

I use a droppings board to gather pure chicken poop and put that on my pile. If a layer of pure poop builds up on the outside of pile and it gets wet that will draw flies. Some kitchen or garden wastes will do that too if they get thick. If this is where your chickens can get to it this should not be a problem. They should keep it stirred up and would enjoy eating any maggots that hatch out. When I see this developing I may stir it up, but sometimes I take grass trimmings and cover it up to seal it so the flies don’t get to that poop or other stuff.

I made two bins side by side out of a lot of excess brick I had when I moved here courtesy of the former owner. I use one as a gathering bin. I toss my stuff I will use to start the next batch in it while the other one is working. After I harvest a batch of compost I start with a layer of garden browns I’ve gathered like corn stalks or sweet potato vines, coarse stuff like that I’ve been saving. I then seal that with a layer from my working bin, then another layer of the coarse stuff. Then I do it again, maybe adding a layer of chicken poop for the droppings board. I do this a third time, and usually top it off with a layer of grass clippings to seal it. I’ll probably water it. In a few days that pile has shrunk considerably so I add another layer of coarse stuff topped with grass clippings. I’ll keep adding stuff to that pile, including chicken poop from the droppings board until it stops shrinking dramatically. Then I start adding stuff to the gathering side and let it work. I’ll probably turn it once or twice but no more. As I said I’m fairly laid back in my approach.

What you are talking about will work, lots of people do it that way, though you might want to rethink those tree branches. It will be slow and not as efficient as if you put a lot of work into it but you will get compost. Just pile it up and walk away. Don’t let anyone tell you that you have to do it differently, you don’t. I’ve gone through this to warn you about some of the mistakes I’ve made and to give you some of the general principles. Whether you use that stuff in a vegetable garden, a flower bed, around landscaping plants, or just to level your yard that stuff is black gold.