Coping with Blackhead

[retlaw]

Is this the same vet that prescribed amprolium to "treat" blackhead? I would strongly recommend doing your own research on this issue before putting your poults at risk.

There is no question (from what I have read) that moisture can support the blackhead ground cycle, which involves cecal worms and earthworms, as well as reinfestation from other poultry that "carry" the blackhead protozoa. But the stretch from "supported by moisture" to "killed by lack of moisture" is a long one, and the normal duration of the blackhead soil cycle is three years. So I would want to see some sort of research support for a "one month blackhead elimination due to dry weather conditions" hypothesis, before I put poults out in the area where your tom died of blackhead.

I live in a rain forest (>90" YTD), so I will never learn whether dry conditions will help control blackhead.

But I will be interested to learn what you find out!

Yes it is the same vet.
That vet treated my birds with metronidazole.
Then sold me the amprol.
I am still waiting for him to call me so i can straighten this out.


Three years in ideal conditions.
If those conditions don't exist then it could be as short as one day.
eg.
Mosquitoes typically live about two weeks, although some adult mosquitoes can survive the winter in a sort of hibernating state which enables them to survive for up to 8 months. Conditions would have to be ideal for 8 months.

Worming Chickens and other Poultry.

http://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/worming-chickens

Good husbandry – preventing worms

Here are some tips to making life more difficult for worms.

• Worm eggs thrive in wet, warm, muddy areas. Remove muddy areas such as those found by pop-holes by creating hard standing or free draining gravel.
• Worm eggs cannot develop when it is very dry, when the temperature is below 10˚C or above 35˚C. Worm chickens as the temperature rises in spring.
• Worm eggs are destroyed by Ultra-violet Light (UV) from the sun. Keep grass short and rotate pasture in the summer if you can to help prevent a build up of worm eggs.
• Keep litter in poultry houses fresh and always ensure it is dry.

Prevention is always easier than cure so follow good husbandry techniques and combined with regular worming (according to the manufacturer's instructions), you shouldn't see any problems.



Products that can be given regularly to help reduce worms

Diatom (in feed), Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV) and fresh crushed Garlic (both usually given in water). These are believed to make the gut an unpleasant place for worms. Before wormers were invented, garlic cloves crushed into water was often the remedy given in the old poultry books.


I like the idea of "preventative", and this is where I feel the cayenne pepper comes to play.
Apple cider vinegar for human health is well documented.

I live in a rainforest to in the pacific north west but summer time here is the dry time.
It was 38C here in the shade when the vet was here.
Dry as a popcorn fart.
Because i am further north the length of daylight increases in the summer making the temperatures stay high for a very long period of time.
Its August first, and we have 15 hours from sunrise to set. Its light from 5 in the morning to 10 at night.
You guys down south never get to have this.
The draw back is in the winter we have 15 hours of night. That part I am not fond of, except for sleeping.

 

[casportpony]

We have sun from 6-8, so not much less than you.

-kathy

 

[pips&peeps]

My juvenile chickens got cocci and I treated them. Therefore the turkeys were on amprolium the same time the chicks were. A week or so later the turkeys were sick, so the amprolium did not prevent anything.

The turkeys were also fed a mixture of game bird starter and medicated chick start before going outside because they were in the brooder with the chicks. So in my opinion amprolium is not a very good preventative.

 

[casportpony]

You are 100% correct, amprolium treats/prevents coccidiosis, not blackhead.

-Kathy

 

[retlaw]

The jug (amprol) says for treatment of caecal coccidiosis.
.024% for 5 to 7 days then .006% for 1 to 2 weeks.

Pipe&peeps
Did your treatment of amprol follow those directions?


Kathy
It might not seen like its that much difference in sunlight but it changes your minds behavior big time.
From max of 16 hrs of sun in the summer to 6 hrs of sun in the winter in 6 months is huge.
Animals plan their whole life cycle around this yearly revolution.

I once spent a winter in the southern hemisphere and came back to the far north right on summer solstice.
So I came from the shortest day of the year to the longest day of the year.
I was screwed up. Like a shocked feeling of confusion and being lost.

 

[pips&peeps]

Yes, and it treated the cocci in the chickens very well, but did not prevent blackhead in the turkeys.

 

[retlaw]

Yes, and it treated the cocci in the chickens very well, but did not prevent blackhead in the turkeys.

I am taking that jug back and getting my money back.

 

[casportpony]

I am taking that jug back and getting my money back.

I'd keep it, but I'd ask your vet to explain to you why he prescribed it to be used after the Metronidazole (I think I know why, but you should hear it from him, not me).

-Kathy

 

[wncpalm]

I would love to know more about the blackhead ground cycle with cecal worms and how to control/eliminate it. All the above information about UV, dry conditions, and rotation are good things to know, and very important worm management tools. But what do they tell us specifically about blackhead, and the risks for susceptible poultry on land where blackhead previously existed? Too many what if's, not enough data or solid experience.

I just hate the idea of "rolling the dice" on a batch of new poults and waiting to see what happens with blackhead. And I don't say that as a criticism, because I essentially did just that this Spring by letting a turkey hen and 12 chicks out on a new pasture area - one that was far enough away from the chickens that I hoped it would not be contaminated.

Kathy seems to have worked this scenario out. And with metronidazole available to treat when symptoms appear, it seems do-able in principle. But I found the watching and waiting to be agonizing - just going out every day and looking for signs of trouble, didn't make for happy time with the turkeys.

One thing that I have been wondering about is whether having birds on a preventative ration containing nitarsone could also clear the worm ground cycle, via the arsenic in the manure? If so, you could actually use the preventative ration to protect the birds and also "treat the soil" by killing the cecal worms carrying the blackhead organisms!

Obviously there are a lot of research issues here that need to be addressed. And since there is no commercial relevance to blackhead research, it would probably be a long wait for interest and funding. But a project involving soil-testing for cecal worms under different conditions would not seem to be a big bucks affair. So with a vet school contact who found these issues interesting, it would be easy enough to begin to address them as student research topics, or maybe even as a high school science project. I know, hope springs eternal, again.

PS My turkey poults that "introduced" me to blackhead last year had had 2Tbs per gallon apple cider vinegar in the water from the beginning. So while ACV likely has some beneficial contributions, it doesn't prevent blackhead or the cecal worms that carry it.

 

[Macs farm]

Hi all, I'm new to this site and turkeys. I've got a turkey with black growth on it's head. He is a little lethargic, and not puffing up and staying at rear when they all approach me. The others have scars around beaks as their all toms and fight a lot locking beaks. They all fluff and gobble with long snout thingy. Is this blackhead or possibly something else. I've separated him and plan on processing him today and will take note on the liver condition. I'll wait to find out obviously before he's eaten. I've introduced chooks in a separate yet attached pen to the turkeys.
Regards
Scott