Copper bolus

[MissPrissy]

We have a sellinium deficiency in this are where I live. I give both my kids and my lambs a BO-Se injection at birth. My vet has been here many times and she has never once said they need a copper bolus. So, I have never given one. I am still on the fence as to wether all my goats need one or not. Katie, is kindly sending me one dose for this little nigi when she kids (if it ever happens. She is laying around today and not up much. Perhaps the end is nigh?).

 

[helmstead]

Quote:
Vets and extension agents don't know everything! There are many factors around mineral absorbtion - just because you're in an area with sufficient copper doesn't mean your goats are getting enough. Also, grave deficiency is usually all vets are trained to look for (when you start loosing kids, having neuro problems in your adults) while chronic symptoms are more easily spotted by the owner who sees the goats and can notice small changes like coat quality.

I sure do hope the end is near for your girl! Sheesh!

 

[cutiepieacres]

Quote:
It's no "Fad"...it's growing medical science regarding goats.

Science is great but with science comes tangible facts that add up to an eventual finding, symptoms, blood tests, hay analysis, necropsy reports....You may have a hypothesis of copper deficiency based on a few symptoms, light rough hair coat, but I personally wouldn't treat based on a hypothesis with a few small pieces of evidence.... There are real cases cases of copper deficiency out there I dont deny that, but there are also a number of goats being treated unnecessarily just because they heard it worked on another goat somewhere else.

 

[PotterWatch]

I think that at this point I do have one goat in need of a bolus. She is a black goat who has dark brown-reddish hair on her back legs that I don't believe was that light in color when I got her in November. She also seems to have the bald spot on her tail. I'm not certain if my other doe needs it at this point, but I do think my oldest one does.

 

[MissPrissy]

Show us a photo how to, Kate.

 

[helmstead]

Quote:
Yeah, sure...I'd much rather have a dead kid or adult to do a necropsy on...

Whoops, I'm gonna get wrist slapped for that one...sorry mods.

 

[cutiepieacres]

Quote:
Yeah, sure...I'd much rather have a dead kid or adult to do a necropsy on...

Whoops, I'm gonna get wrist slapped for that one...sorry mods.

That is my point though if you dont have a problem why fix it an other wise healthy goat that is fat and delivering healthy kids with a few red hairs doesnt scream treatment to me. When it starts adding up red hairs, weight loss, kidding problems then of course your going to want to investigate and find a treatment before you need a necropsy but I have seen lots of breeders or owners in my area at least that give these medications with none or few symptoms just because they heard that "so and so" does it and they have nice goats......all I am saying is dont treat lightly make sure you have somthing to treat before you rush in and throw a bunch of medication at it.

 

[Goattalker]

All but two areas of the United States are selenium deficient. One of the areas that has plenty is an old mine, where there is too much. Selenium is in the soil from the ice age and travels via flooding. If an area has been farmed, it is more than likely deficient (the Federal government will NOT allow farmers the freedom of adding enough back to the soil to matter). I didn't buy into to all of the vaccinations at first either, I researched cause and effect, and found BoSE to be one of the MOST IMPORTANT vaccinations you can give your goats. So take it for what it's worth, call it a fad, just like goats were a "fad" 10 years ago. They weren't, but that is what they were called. And BTW, I have had necropsys done, and I have put out the money to have lab testing done, my statements are the result of both personal experience and scientific study.

Cutiepieactes, your area is deficient as is the soil in surrounding areas, I've been there, I know. You may have gotten away with not doing the work of vaccinating, but that doesn't mean you goats have gotten the best care possible. Science matters, and before dissing a program, you might want to do the research necessary to support your position.

 

[ksacres]

Quote:
Blood tests for copper are useless, that IS scientifically proven. A liver biopsy is the only reliable way to test copper levels. I LIVER BIOPSY. Yes yes, I'd much rather put my goats through a painful procedure and risk complications like liver rupture, bleed outs, general anaesthesia, etc than to dose based on PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS. Makes perfect sense to me.

It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to overdose a goat with a copper bolus. Extra copper is filtered out by the liver. The slow rate of absorption allows for the body to rid itself of copper over time.

Copper injections or copper solutions are rapidly absorbed and it would be fairly easy to induce copper toxicity in goats using them.

So, all that being said, can we see your hay/feed analysis, blood tests, and clinical findings indicating you DON'T have a deficiency?

Also along this line, you're saying that if I were to have a doe go down in late pregnancy that I should run blood glucose level tests, have my hay and feed tested, and then wait for the results of her necropsy AFTER she dies of pregnancy toxemia? I think not.

Treat the symptoms. If you aren't willing to do that, you shouldn't have goats.

 

[abluechipstock]

hoeggars goat supply has a couple of pages of little tips on keeping goats, they have a list of "problems/illness" in goats and what they are usually lacking in these conditions, the top 2 things for all the conditions is copper and selenium, in my regiman of goat husbandry, i give a bose injection right before breeding to promote sexual function, a month before birth they get another bose and a cdt vaccine, and now i'm adding the copper bolus twice a year since i have does with the split tail, dull coat and i had one abort this year, she shows all these signs, they do have loose minerals out all the time, i was lax on the sweetlix due to cost but look what the cost ended up being, they are back on sweetlix so that should help also, i wouldn't do these things if i didn't think it would help them, i love these stupid goats, just a little info