Crazy Idea for a Calmer Death

[silkiechicken]

Quote:
We are to gas our rodents too in their home cages. That said, I find it much more painless for them to just pick them up as you would for a cage change and break their necks. Bam, they never knew they weren't going into a clean cage.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

We're actually not allowed to break their necks at our place! We can cut off the heads of pinkies if under a certain age, but it has to be with certain issued scissors, and only at certain certification levels.

 

[silkiechicken]

There were rumors of not allowing cervical dislocation because people were to squeamish to do it right. That said, most policy is for the comfort of the human worker.... Pinkies/fuzzines D7 and below are decapitated.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

At our place, we were told it was just too much of a risk in having everyone do it correctly on that many rodents. The concern appeared to mainly be over adult animals who take a bit more physical strength than the kiddos. Our vets are allowed to cerv dislocate pinkies, but not adults for instance. We only do decapitation for pinkies, rats, guinea pigs, and rabbits, but the latter three must use an issued guillatine device, that must be inspected and sharpened routinely. And it has to be the PI techs doing it, and they only use it for studies that need a freshly harvested brain. My husband did some PI tech work, so he got to play with the fun brain slicer machine and all that. For a while, we had brain cultures sitting in our fridge. XD

 

[silkiechicken]

In your fridge! LOL

We can't take animal tissues away from special areas. But alas, we do use some special animals. One thing is for sure though, when I finish grad school, I'm not working with mice. They make for one long and drawn out thesis.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Yeah, that one was from when he was in college. They had about 30 rats, and much, much laxer protocols. XD He had to finish up a thesis, and took some work home with him. ...Right next to the cottage cheese. Mmmm.

Definitely though, some of the uni mice are worth far more than I am. It's crazy how high they get up there in price.

Good luck with grad school! Some of the student PI techs always look about half a second away from either a major mental breakdown, or death. ...Hm, note to self. Attempt to put chickens into law school for a quick demise.

 

[growinupinfl]

Ok Where do you all work and I have one question is there cat skinners there. I have always wondered how to they find some to fill the position of cat skinner for the cats used in A&P classes. But seriously what is the general kind of place you are working in. Is it a University, Pharmacuetical studies? I find it intresting and awesome that they now even take into great consideration how rats are put out. Considering in the past even with humans we had experiments that often involved shocking the participant in experiments. I think it shows that the consideration of life and first do no harm are actually mattering in our world. I still like the Kava Kava idea punk-a- doodle

 

[silkiechicken]

Lots and lots of coffee keeps me from the edge of nervous break down. LOL

I'm in a molecular and cellular biology program, in a pharmaceutical science lab, working on developmental biology.

Animal use is VERY regulated. Everything has a protocol. Mice, rats, rabbits... even FISH have established rules on how they are maintained. There are rules for FLIES! Every year you have to review your protocols, bring them to the animal care use committee, have everything you do with mice certified before you can do it. What they eat, how they are handled, how they are accounted for, bred, tracked, disposed of, who has contacts, annual personnel training etc...

If I were to come back as an animal, a lab animal would not be a bad way to come back as. Daily cleaned cages, toys, all you can eat food, temperature and humidity maintained facilities. Dang rodents live in a better cared for room than us students. We'll be freezing or butts off or over heating in the lab, but those mice have their personal AC and heater units on backup electricity! 24/7 vet care 365 day a year, there are very few house pets or even humans than I can think of which get better care than lab animals. LOL

From all my experience so far with lab animal research, I have nothing bad to say about how it is conducted. The media I see about using animals in research is bad and so on I swear must be the same ol same ol hashed up propaganda from the 60's. I have no idea how anyone can sell an any animal "to research" in the US because they all have to come from disease free tested breeding colonies now a days as far as I know and have seen.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Hey growinup. Animal research can be confusing, because it has some diverse branches (ie. Commercial, military, pure research), and then has different job positions that can vary quite widely too. For me, I work as an animal tech doing 'pure research' in a university type setting. It is the only branch I'll personally work in at the moment, because (just based on what I've seen thus far) it has the best regulation, self-regulation methods, employee training and protection, and overall animal care. It sounds like silkie is probably a PI tech, in a grad school setting. I'm really happy with my current place of work, because of a lot of ways they do things. They focus on positive reinforcement methods versus restraint for the larger animals. This includes situations like teaching a pig to hold out a leg for a blood draw followed by a treat. Methods like those cause no stress to the animal, where as traditional restraining methods can cause a lot of stress. All my coworkers are animal owners or lovers, but there are selfish reasons to for the, er, stress on no stress. Stress hormones can effect studies, and add an unwanted variable in there.

I'm really happy that my facility also has its own adoption program where animals on no-kill studies are adopted out to the public. Very recently, it became mandatory for us to provide nesting enrichment for our rats and mice, which is something our IACUC put into motion. It's more work for me at cage changing time, but I am thrilled with the change! There is an increasing push in zoos and pure research (probably the better run commercial testers too) for increasingly better animal enrichment. I also like that our dogs get walked several times a day.

As for cat skinners though, that falls under biomedical supply companies that have different regulations in place than animal facilities do. My mom said she had to dissect a cat in college, and was most disturbed by having to cut out a little 'cat jacket' to peel off the fur.

I really am hoping to talk to one of the PhDs my husband knows about the kava kava. He works with medicinal herbs, and may be able to tell me how much of a dose will have how much of an effect in chickens, and what dangers would be posed to people from residual amounts in the meat. I think he is off in some far away country right now though. Foo.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Oops, silkie beat me to posting.

But on animal acquisitions, dogs and cats are the only animals we don't always get from a laboratory specific breeding facility. Before the AR group that shall not be named put a kink in it, a lot of our one day lung study dogs came from shelter dogs on death roll. They then got adopted out, but apparently not giving them that second chance at adoption is terrible due to the...cough...torture they had to endure. The paperwork for that is a nightmare though. Very detailed.

Ha, the thing that kills me is that our rodents are on reverse osmosis water. I would like some of that. I think some third world countries might too!