Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[LoneStarHen]

Yes, I've been slowly reading through all of the other posts on this thread regarding the cream genes, and the red genes, and the brassy color. It really makes my head swim. I've had paint horses and great pyrenees for a years, and their genetics seem so simple compared to chickens...

Breeding the CLB will certainly be an interesting journey for me. I've had easter eggers for years. While I have a certain confirmation in my flock that I like, and there are particular egg traits that I like, -so I breed and cull accordingly- I cross to get a variety of different feather and egg colors. I've been really successful in breeding and improving an EE flock that I really like.

Exciting!! I hope my little CLB chickies turn out fabulous.

 

[RoyalLegend]

We have cream legbars, french marans (of several varieties), araucanas, and a buckeye, and a langshan.
The legbars lay a blue egg for us too, the araucanas lay either blue, green, or pink eggs for us, the buckeye a light barely-brown egg, and the langshan lays an ivory egg. The marans lay from very chocolatey dark, to (a few) very light and spotted.
I haven't tried crossing them, but it is an interesting idea. You would almost have to use araucana hens that you KNEW laid blue eggs with a cream legbar roo to be sure you got blue.
If you haven't gotten a langshan to add a different color, I highly suggest it. The almost translucent ivory of their eggs is very different from the other colors.

Please post your results, as it's facinating to know what combinations have which outcomes.

 

[ChicKat]

Quote: LoneStarHen -

they definitely will be fabulous....they can't help but be. ;O)

 

[nicalandia]

I'm getting ready to post pics and info on a UK CCL breeder that has Silver looking birds, but this are infact Creasted Cream Legbar genetically, this breeder did a test mating, crossing her CCL silver looking males to Silver Duckwing Welsummer because some people were saying that her birds were Silver instead of gold based(S/S instead of s+/s+)..

I'll be posting the results when I'm able to do so, so keep checking the thread ok..

edit.
she got the genetic advise and "How To" from a colege of mine(at the coop forums) so she did everything correctly

 

[LAFreewayChickens]

I'm afraid I haven't followed this thread closely, I barely have time away from work keep chicks fed and watered.

But I wanted to through a few thoughts out for consideration. Please forgive me if they have already been discussed, and feel free to ignore my post rather than rehash them.

I am thinking that given that very few birds in the US exhibit true Cream coloration, and because from what I've seen, I actually think the Gold birds are prettier (although I think the cream gene is interesting and important to preserve), that we should be considering an SOP for (blue-egg laying crested) Legbars that includes at least two colors Gold-based (aka Crele), and Cream. I know that some might like to add White.

With such limited stock in the US, I think it could have adverse effects on the gene pool if folks aggressively culled otherwise good birds because they don't have cream genes. From a breeding standpoint, I think we all benefit if we create incentives (in the form of an SOP) both to breed high quality gold birds and the best possible cream birds.

 

[KPenley]

I'm afraid I haven't followed this thread closely, I barely have time away from work keep chicks fed and watered.

But I wanted to through a few thoughts out for consideration. Please forgive me if they have already been discussed, and feel free to ignore my post rather than rehash them.

I am thinking that given that very few birds in the US exhibit true Cream coloration, and because from what I've seen, I actually think the Gold birds are prettier (although I think the cream gene is interesting and important to preserve), that we should be considering an SOP for (blue-egg laying crested) Legbars that includes at least two colors Gold-based (aka Crele), and Cream. I know that some might like to add White.

With such limited stock in the US, I think it could have adverse effects on the gene pool if folks aggressively culled otherwise good birds because they don't have cream genes. From a breeding standpoint, I think we all benefit if we create incentives (in the form of an SOP) both to breed high quality gold birds and the best possible cream birds.

Your thoughts are echoed by quite a few people, and there is a growing movement to recreate both the Gold and Silver Legbar and color variations of the Cream Legbar that are crested and lay blue eggs but different colored. You may be interested in connecting with these breeders.

These variations are not Cream Legbars though. Since the Cream Legbar is not a new creation, the SOP will remain very close to what it is now. But if a large enough group of breeders works on the other color variations and original Legbar colors, they too have a great chance of being accepted into the SOP. I'm sure that any of the Cream Legbar Club Officers would be more than happy to share info with any who would like to pursue acceptance into the APA for other colors and types. It might be prudent to enter together under the heading Legbar. Perhaps a new thread could be created for that purpose. Best wishes!

 

[LAFreewayChickens]

I was indeed thinking that it might be best to create an overall category of "Legbar" or "Crested Legbar" with color variations including gold crele and cream crele (or just gold and cream). Along the lines, for example, of the Plymouth Rock SOP entry, which then lists 7 different specific coloration patterns.

To be clear, I am not proposing recreating the gold (or silver) legbars breed by Punnett which did not lay blue eggs nor have crests.

Rather I am proposing that we have an SOP the reflects the fact that the vast majority of people breeding "Cream Legbars" in the U.S. do not, in fact, have ANY cream birds. Rather, most of us have only gold birds.

 

[blackbirds13]

I was indeed thinking that it might be best to create an overall category of "Legbar" or "Crested Legbar" with color variations including gold crele and cream crele (or just gold and cream). Along the lines, for example, of the Plymouth Rock SOP entry, which then lists 7 different specific coloration patterns.

To be clear, I am not proposing recreating the gold (or silver) legbars breed by Punnett which did not lay blue eggs nor have crests.

Rather I am proposing that we have an SOP the reflects the fact that the vast majority of people breeding "Cream Legbars" in the U.S. do not, in fact, have ANY cream birds. Rather, most of us have only gold birds.

I like this idea very much. It seems like such a shame and a waste to just call the gold birds non-standard or culls or EE's. Crested Legbars sounds great to me or variations like you mention above.The gold birds are just so attractive and nothing is any different other than the lack of a cream gene and they do breed true. I hope there is energy behind this as I think it's sounds fantastic especially with more cream colored birds making their debut I think this is a great way to keep value going long term for these gold birds which we all do have, and maybe eliminate the EE vs Standard argument before it really takes hold. I love my creams but my first hen is as golden as they come and my first Legbar love bird. I'd love to run a gold and a cream line if there was long term value in it. It would make breeding for type and color so much easier.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I agree there is a lot of love and interest in the gold birds and also the whites.

But as a whole the leadership of the club as far as I know is working to get Cream Legbars as the cream bird approved first- number one reason being it already has an approved counterpart in Europe. Just as there are other color variations in other breeds, there can be accepted color variations in Cream Legbars. I do not know if it is possible to get more than one approved at the same time but it has been suggested to us that we work on the Creams first. If there is enough interest from the members then by all means perhaps the Cream Legbar Club can get things moving to get the other colors approved, too. As for myself I have neither room nor time to work on both, so I am choosing to breed towards cream and keep the interest high in the club to work on the cream.

 

[dretd]

I was indeed thinking that it might be best to create an overall category of "Legbar" or "Crested Legbar" with color variations including gold crele and cream crele (or just gold and cream). Along the lines, for example, of the Plymouth Rock SOP entry, which then lists 7 different specific coloration patterns.

To be clear, I am not proposing recreating the gold (or silver) legbars breed by Punnett which did not lay blue eggs nor have crests.

Rather I am proposing that we have an SOP the reflects the fact that the vast majority of people breeding "Cream Legbars" in the U.S. do not, in fact, have ANY cream birds. Rather, most of us have only gold birds.

I have thought this myself. I would love to see several color variants adopted. My suggestion is that instead of Gold Cream Legbar (as you pointed out, its already used for a different breed with different characteristics), that the descriptor should be unique such as Ginger-Cream Legbar or perhaps Chestnut-Cream Legbar. In doing research on English websites, I have seen the darker girls referred to as having too much 'ginger' or 'ginger instead of salmon', so this seems like it would be fitting given their English origins.

I agree there is a lot of love and interest in the gold birds and also the whites.

But as a whole the leadership of the club as far as I know is working to get Cream Legbars as the cream bird approved first- number one reason being it already has an approved counterpart in Europe. Just as there are other color variations in other breeds, there can be accepted color variations in Cream Legbars. I do not know if it is possible to get more than one approved at the same time but it has been suggested to us that we work on the Creams first. If there is enough interest from the members then by all means perhaps the Cream Legbar Club can get things moving to get the other colors approved, too. As for myself I have neither room nor time to work on both, so I am choosing to breed towards cream and keep the interest high in the club to work on the cream.

I can see where you are pretty overwhelmed with trying to get this breed into the APA. I think ChicKat had mentioned that you had to get only one color varient through to start then add others into that category. Maybe she really said that you all were only working on the Cream and that the others might get worked on later and I mis-understood. Perhaps if there is a desire to add the others, a sub-commiitte could be formed at some point to work on that so that it would not be the burden of the core group that is working so hard on the original color. It is important that htis first step be taken and that it is done right! I am with LAFreeChicks thouhg, that I would hate to lose valuable genetics for want of a specific color.