Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the SOP' started by redchicken9, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. dretd

    dretd Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Nicalandia: This is a very interesting theory and one that makes a great deal of sense. I do have a couple of questions for you:

    -I am not aware of the BR history in foreign lands. Do we know that both the light and dark barring gene exist in England--the examples you have shown are from Australia?

    -You have stated "they (the CL males) are for sure single barred" but then go one to describe how a double barred male that is dark simply has the dark barring gene as an explanation for the dark barring instead of him being single barred. Did you mean to type he is for sure double barred instead of single barred? This make more sense to me plus if there were single barred males we would have non barred hens showing up and I haven't heard of this report yet.

    -Does this new hypothesis explain why some of the males look like they are gold as they have some dark cream instead of silver and could these males with the dark barring gene actually be cream and just resemble non-dilute males because of this barring? This would be really good news for those that like the darker coloration. It looks like you can tell the difference between the cream/dark barred and the non-cream lightregular barred by looking at the barring in the breast-is this correct?

    -Is there a way to test your hypothesis about the barring gene? Will it require outcrossing to Barred Rocks? If so would it be necessary to get a hold of some of the really nice show quality super-slow feathering stock to do the crosses? Are there both Light and Dark Rocks in the US?


    Clearly a lot of brain-time went in to this idea. Thanks for the thoughtful theory and photos--and absolutely gorgeous barred rocks, had to repost just cuz of the eye candy.....
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  2. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    Not if crossed to cream legbar females, single barred males will look like double barred males but without the mark dilution found on most double barred male chicks(except dark barred male lines). females will lack the barred headspot, but on birds with the Dark barring gene, another way to sex them is using the headspot, even if both males and females have the same tone of chick down and even if the females have s well defined headspot, the females will have a very distinctive headtripe, males will have a messi headspot and lack the distinctive headspot

    dark male with a headspot but lacking the distinctive headstripe

    [​IMG]


    now a female with a headspot, BUT with a distinctive headstripe
    [​IMG]


    as you can see even if males are dark and females have headspot they are always easy to sex them at hatch using the distinctive headstripe found on females



    I dont Believe that these "Dark" Males have single barring on them, I have yet to see a single barred male from GFF, not one. but its quite easy to spot them. here is how to distinguish them,

     
  3. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    sorry I meant to say, the dark males are NOT single barred, sorry guys, but they are the "Dark Barred"
     
  4. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    oh and thanks for the reading, I dont use spell check..sorry, but I meant that the "Dark" males have the "Dark Barring" gene and are NOT single barred. I have yet to see a single barred male from GFF.

    Edit. I dont believe this has to do with different e+ loci as much as different type of barring, as you can see from the Dark jaerhons and Dark barred barred rocks, this is independently from e loci. but more on the Barring gene. and as dark barring wont dilute the black pigment it will also wont dilute the gold tone as much as light barring gene does on a s+/s+ ig/ig birds, so dark males will have the lemon/straw colored hackles instead of the silver one founds on light barred males
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  5. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    sorry I meant the Dark males are NOT single barred. let me see if I am able to edit it. now I hope the meaning of my orinal post is not lost due to my lack of typing skills, now dark males will undoubtedly have a richer color than the light barred males
     
  6. ChicKat

    ChicKat Overrun With Chickens Premium Member

    Thanks for the clarification. It does make sense that there are genetics from dark barred Plymouth Rocks and Light Barred Plymouth Rocks. I have seen light barred Plymouth Rock males in the USA, but seldom dark Barred- like your great picts. from Austrialia of the dark barred male.

    This is something I wish we could get genetically tested in a laboratory to see if a particluar male had a B1, B2, B3 or the other B -- or a combination in his barring genes. :O)
     
  7. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    thanks, the "Dark Barred" males hatch Dark aswell, just like dark CCL. now I dont believe we "Need" to secuence these dark males genome, but an outcross to Black Leghorn or other black breeds should do the trick.

    Cross a known Dark male(dark at hatch) with a black female. the F1 pullets will inherit his "Dark" Barring gene. also the F1 males will inherit it. do a simple F1xF1 cross and be in the look out for "Dark" double barred males. they should look dark at hatch like single barred males, but their barring would show up alot better than single barred males, some may even use this "Dark" Barring gene to improve the Red barred breeds or to create the Dark Barred Rocks once found in the US such a long time ago

    nice pics of Dark Barred Bantams...
    http://www.thechickencoop.com.au/plymouth-rock-dark-barred-bantams
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  8. robnorman24

    robnorman24 Out Of The Brooder

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    [​IMG]
    Welsummers and cream legbars.
     
  9. FridayYet

    FridayYet Innocent Bystander

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    How cute! I can't wait 'till I find some Wellies of my own [​IMG]

    Looks like a great hatch.
     
  10. ChicKat

    ChicKat Overrun With Chickens Premium Member

    y' know..... wouldn't a lab test be quicker than breeding and growing out a lot of chicks that would be unwanted in the end? It would take 2-generations to get to the results of F1xF1 - and then 5-6 months to grow out to see if egg color was affected in what way -- and a lot of birds that would be hybrids....but not near my goal. --- Just sayin'
     

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