Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection
- Thread starter redchicken9
- Start date
Why is it that some are acting surprised to realize that cream is an inhibitor of gold?
We've known that much all along.
And why is it that some are acting like the Gold Legbar just happened to pop out a crest one day and lay blue eggs? They did not.
There is much more going on in the Cream Legbar than gold, and it has always been described as a cream basis. Please consider that before any more casual remarks are made about errors in the original standard that just so happened to be written while the creators were still alive...written by the breeders who standardized the Cream Legbar, accepted it, admitted it to the PCGB and got it accepted (which is and was a huge process including shown birds, not something to be casually written down incorrectly) and kept the standard relatively unchanged for the past 65 years!
@WHmarans : I am not an egg expert, but many here have commented about brown pigment being laid last over blue which can result in green eggs. Have you noticed changes during the laying cycle of your girls? I have some who can lay an almost green egg at first and end up with turquoise in the middle of the cycle and end with almost white eggs!
We've known that much all along.
And why is it that some are acting like the Gold Legbar just happened to pop out a crest one day and lay blue eggs? They did not.
There is much more going on in the Cream Legbar than gold, and it has always been described as a cream basis. Please consider that before any more casual remarks are made about errors in the original standard that just so happened to be written while the creators were still alive...written by the breeders who standardized the Cream Legbar, accepted it, admitted it to the PCGB and got it accepted (which is and was a huge process including shown birds, not something to be casually written down incorrectly) and kept the standard relatively unchanged for the past 65 years!
@WHmarans : I am not an egg expert, but many here have commented about brown pigment being laid last over blue which can result in green eggs. Have you noticed changes during the laying cycle of your girls? I have some who can lay an almost green egg at first and end up with turquoise in the middle of the cycle and end with almost white eggs!
I just noticed today the more green CL eggs are whiter inside but the bluest egg is the same color all the way through. Is this usually the way it works? Is this a way to judge egg color?
Make sure you aren't checking the eggs after the eggshell is dry on the inside, as that makes the membrane stark white.
If your eggshell is green outside and blue inside the hen is secreting a brown cuticle (bloom) - it is faint and it is over a blue eggshell base. If the greenish blue is the same color inside and outside then it is one of the variations of the 'blue' that is the same throughout the shell. HTH
Regarding the shell-color lightening during the hen's cycle, it has to be that she uses up her brown pigments - that has been noted in Marans, then you get your turquiose eggs. Next she must use up her blue pigments. The article on enhancing color of sea bird's eggs using beta carotene implys that the blue can actually change between eggs based on what the bird eats.
There is an article about it in the CL Club's Clubhouse, or PM me and I will send you a link. :O)
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KPenley i think there trying to restart the color debate and are making another push for our SOP to be change from what the british standard says about color to except improper coloration in our flocks in the US.. short roaders. Your also right about errors that may have been written , the original creators we're alive and to think they weren't consulted when the s.o.p. Was written doesnt seem right. I would bet money the people who wrote the s.o.p. Contacted the original creators to make sure it was done right, even with errors I don't think the color was one of them.
Ive been taking this talk as a learning experience to learn how to fix this issue with color I think some people just see it as opportunities to accept something that's not proper. Real cream is going to take some time to become the majority of whats in the US some people might be getting overwhelmed with this task. I know Ive had my moments. But breeding a bird thats going to take 3-4+ years to get it where it should be just takes patience
Ive been taking this talk as a learning experience to learn how to fix this issue with color I think some people just see it as opportunities to accept something that's not proper. Real cream is going to take some time to become the majority of whats in the US some people might be getting overwhelmed with this task. I know Ive had my moments. But breeding a bird thats going to take 3-4+ years to get it where it should be just takes patience
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A while back, someone was asking also about the correct crest for Cream Legbars. In all liklihood the female (and male for that matter) crest seems to mimic the color in the tail feathers. So in a gold-based bird with taupe body feathering the darker crest "brown-black" are probably correct. The white-barred crests in females probably point to silver being in the genetic make up.
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Steen,
has it occured to you that a silver-looking bird could indeed be silver?
has it occured to you that a silver-looking bird could indeed be silver?
ChicKat Yes i wondered that. I instantly had the thought that jill might have took nicalandia short road when i think of her roos and the hens pale breast. This thought came to me when the talk of Gff blood mixing and imporoper coloration birds coming from there as of late. I would worry Bout my roos becaues of the silver necks but there butter cream saddles give me peace of mind that im on track and more patience is needed
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It could be that the saddle feathers are the really good indicator. Once silver gets mixed into the pot - it really ripples through the genetic base.
nicalandia - answered a question for me regarding silver in the mix.... and I would cut and paste the genetic codes here...but -- big duh...how do you cut and paste on this tablet. (and you get these word compeltions and write what you didn't intend.
A silver crested legbar would be a pretty bird for those to whom it appeals, and getting any gold out of the mix would be a priority.
It could be that the silver bird would be able to be into an APA acceptance at some future time.
Regarding Jill or anyone in UK intentionally introducing silver to get to the correct look, I seriously doubt that. what they may have done is introduce silver to add size or perhaps an araucana to make eggs bluer, and unwittingly selected for silver - by selecting the silver-looking chicks. If the Cream Legbar is gold based as we all agree, then the chicks would be as the golds- as Pease had stated in his quote.
Regarding the possibility of the UK SOP being incorrect, such things have happened. After all by that time Punnett was in his 70's.
Selecting the chicks that were silver could certainly introduce a silver to a flock, if silver was there...and it probably was introduced not based on coloration but by an outcross to do something such as increase egg production. ETA Thye may even have introduced silver via barred bird to attempt to regain the autosexing that they were loosing over there.
nicalandia - answered a question for me regarding silver in the mix.... and I would cut and paste the genetic codes here...but -- big duh...how do you cut and paste on this tablet. (and you get these word compeltions and write what you didn't intend.
A silver crested legbar would be a pretty bird for those to whom it appeals, and getting any gold out of the mix would be a priority.
It could be that the silver bird would be able to be into an APA acceptance at some future time.
Regarding Jill or anyone in UK intentionally introducing silver to get to the correct look, I seriously doubt that. what they may have done is introduce silver to add size or perhaps an araucana to make eggs bluer, and unwittingly selected for silver - by selecting the silver-looking chicks. If the Cream Legbar is gold based as we all agree, then the chicks would be as the golds- as Pease had stated in his quote.
Regarding the possibility of the UK SOP being incorrect, such things have happened. After all by that time Punnett was in his 70's.
Selecting the chicks that were silver could certainly introduce a silver to a flock, if silver was there...and it probably was introduced not based on coloration but by an outcross to do something such as increase egg production. ETA Thye may even have introduced silver via barred bird to attempt to regain the autosexing that they were loosing over there.
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didn't you say something about not underestimating a professor in his 70's. I would use the old man smiley you did that waves his finger but my phone can't use those. Ive met some rather spunky sharp and very active people that are in there 70-80s.
at the time the British a sop was created the lagbars we're in complete disarray or was all that later on I can't remember. The people who tried to bring Legbars back to what they should be I would have no doubt they could have used a silver bird to correct color.
I think gff was taking the short road when they used four or five different sources to get wherTheir at now. All that mixing is what were left with to sort threw and breed selectively. I see many many variations I seen good birds come from GFF this year and some very very very warm ones if not brown. the warnings been made mixing lines brings out more problems and a longer Road. like it or not I think we're all dealing with that mixing of the lines
at the time the British a sop was created the lagbars we're in complete disarray or was all that later on I can't remember. The people who tried to bring Legbars back to what they should be I would have no doubt they could have used a silver bird to correct color.
I think gff was taking the short road when they used four or five different sources to get wherTheir at now. All that mixing is what were left with to sort threw and breed selectively. I see many many variations I seen good birds come from GFF this year and some very very very warm ones if not brown. the warnings been made mixing lines brings out more problems and a longer Road. like it or not I think we're all dealing with that mixing of the lines
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Quote:
As per SOP Creast should be Cream Grey Barring, no Brown Black, the Brown colored females with brown creast are too red enhanced.... and No, Silver is not need it to produce Cream Grey barring.... just ig/ig with less red enhancers... and when did Cream becomame Brown?
As per SOP Creast should be Cream Grey Barring, no Brown Black, the Brown colored females with brown creast are too red enhanced.... and No, Silver is not need it to produce Cream Grey barring.... just ig/ig with less red enhancers... and when did Cream becomame Brown?
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