Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[nicalandia]

yes you can use partridge. it takes few generations but can be done to diversify the blood line.
I breed crele's here are some of my babies. male is in the front. hens behind him

that sounds like a Plan.... better stay with that plan.. now anyother question just P.M me ok I dont want to fill this thread with more penedesenca questions..but i´ll be more than happy to help you out ok

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Thank-you for being here and saying this.
My breakfast this morning was fresh eggs and warm toast drizzled with house made dried red pepper sauce. Incredible. Simple. I like being here with this project and its purpose. It fits in with the concept of staying curious about life, ie. having things that make you tick.
What you wrote above that covers the look helps tremendously. If you can, please post a photo of a side profile of one of your jaw dropping rocks. Great to have part of the genetic heritage to compare/contrast!
There's a lot for me to do today, and I wish it wasn't so, I do intend to review female shape and post photos before the weekend is over. Please all, if you can do it go for it! You know how to do it! No need to wait for me. Language is a few posts back (post 496)!

These two guys were brooder mates. At their 3 month weigh in the rock was 4 lb 10 oz, the legbar 1 lb 14 oz. They are nearly 5 months old in these pictures taken today. The rock usually has a nice backline lifting gently without any break at the base of the tail (but well short of the rock standard, more just horizontal instead of drooping). Of course when I want a picture he goes into a sumatra impersonation. The legbar has what I think is a good tail angle but a short back. I tried to upload a comparison of the back width but had difficulty getting the computer to cooperate as well. Apparently you can click on the photos to see them larger.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Wow, those are both some nice boys!

 

[ChicKat]

This photo was the first I ever saw of a cream legbar hen. Thus it shaped my mental-image of the hens. One thing I didn't like about it was the length of the legs:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=crea...w=152&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0,i:92

Here is a photo of "Robin" - this is the photo in the breeds section of www.Eggzy.net. The excellent people who keep eggzy up added Cream Legbars to the breed section when I requested a new egg color be added, along with the ability to add cream legbar eggs to the tally - so cream legbar needed to be added to the drop down menu of the eggs section.




The same photo is also used in the BYC listing where I entered cream legbar to end my frustration when I went to that database...and searched cream legbars. BTW if you click on the term "product" at the top of the column it will resort the database by alphabetical order...easer to find the breed you are looking for, than going by the popularity of the breed IMO.
It is designed to point to the legbar entry. Silverfox from the UK had already set up a section on legbars, and the info is there. --

So here are some photos of Robin.


Shape - Female

Comb: Single; large, deeply and evenly serrated with five to seven spikes, erect or dropping gracefully to the side without obscuring the eyes. (note: Leghorns describe their ideal comb as having the first point stand erect, would this be a good description for an ideal CL comb?). [Chickat]I wonder why we would add it- since we aren't talking Leghorns... I would leave this part of the SOP as is. Although Lebhorns are in their back ground...they aren't Leghorns... JMO

Beak: Stout, point clear of the front of the comb, slightly curved. [chickat], yes

Face: Smooth (not sure how to “nail” this, is it smooth or finely textured, clean cut, free from wrinkles, how do you describe what you see).[chickat] smooth - yes




Eyes: Large, bright, and prominent. Round in appearance. [chickat] - yes, Perhaps Robin has 'dreamy eyes' - IMO her face is just about the most serene and beautiful one I have seen on a cream legbar hen. -- I prefer this 'intelligent' look to the ones that appear to be perpetually startled - JMO - (and not like i would have a bias or anything. ;O) )

Wattles: Medium in size, smooth, well-rounded, free from folds or wrinkles. Skin soft. [chickat] - the feathers are so dense--and soft and fulffy, that it is somewhat difficult to find the skin. The feathers are surprisingly soft when you pick them up. My Leghorn hybrid (Ideal 236) has a different feather feel, very crisp and slick in comparison.


in the above pict at 22-weeks, both are panting because it was so hot that day...Robin had been digging in some moist dirt to make a dirt bath- hence the dirt on her beak.

Ear-lobes: Medium in size, oblong, pendent, smooth and free from folds, equally matched in size and shape.[chickat] - yes...not much of an earlobe fan

Crest: Small, tufted, affixed above the eyes at the forefront of the skull with feathers narrow that extend back towards the blade of the comb. (Please, there’s a need for a lot of comments on how to describe the crest, both male and female). [chickat] - My preference is for a crest that appears darker than any of the other feathering. I also prefer a crest that is trimmed-looking and not too poofy. Rather than the bouffant hair-style look, I prefer the ones that look like a little hat, except integrated. I think a definite but subtle crest is the most attractive. If you have a BYC 2012 calendar, then this months crest is way overkill. (great for Halloween though). I know that crest will be a big discussion point as redchicken9 stated. It is interesting how prominent their crests are as they are growing out...they look like punk-rockers with mowhawks...but then they settle into smooth refined crests as they grow older.

Head: Medium in length, symmetrical, well balanced, and of fine quality. [chickat] - yes - I actually have no expertise in chicken head lengths....

Neck: Long and well covered with hackle feathers. [chickat] - this breed does have longer necks than my other chickens, and holds the head high. They are very graceful for that reason ...and when the sit down - especially the females they look so graceful - because they seem to keep their head at the same level.......

Robin was pretty young in the black and white picture..... different pose also - but shows the long neck.

Back: Moderately broad it’s entire length, long, with an even slope to the tail. Feathers moderately broad and of sufficient length to carry well up to tail. [chickat] - I would say the hens fit this category - and they have no lack of feathering.

Tail: Moderately long, carried at an angle of forty degrees (or 35?) above horizontal (see Punnett, text fig.1). Main tail feathers broad and overlapping.[chickat] - I think that tails exceed moderate, and that the tail angle often exceeds 40-degrees. What about y'all. At one point when my pair was growing up -- the hen's tail was much longer than the male's and I remember putting up a post to ask if others had seen that. If I have time to go through posts, I will see If I can come back with a link - but it probably is out there somewhere.

Wings: Large and carried close to the body without dropping. [chickat] - yes

Breast: Prominent, well-developed, and carried forward. [chickat] -yes. Although the following picture is blurry and from June when they were 6-mos old approx... IT shows the crest, the barring in the tail..earlobes at 6-mos and comb and wattles.




Before she went seriously broody...she would linger in the nest box---and it ws too hot to be indoors in July! This did give a good hackle, wattle, eye, earlobe and beak photo...... I would say heavily feathered.

There are several other face close ups -- left and right side, in the legbar contest entry. Tonight I will be back to see if I can dig up a link. :O)

 

[redchicken9]

Excellent Chickat!

Shape - Female

Comb: Single; large, deeply and evenly serrated with five to seven spikes, erect or dropping gracefully to the side without obscuring the eyes. (note: Leghorns describe their ideal comb as having the first point stand erect, would this be a good description for an ideal CL comb?).
Redchicken9: OK. My pullets appear to have 5 spikes, these two with erect combs. Didn't capture a floppy one, seems like they twist first before they flop. Anyone have a nice female leghorn showing her comb to post? I've seen at least one twisted, bunched comb on a CL girl that seemed ungraceful. Is the adjective of grace enough here?



Pullet A



Beak: Stout, point clear of the front of the comb, slightly curved. Redchicken9: yes.

Face: Smooth (not sure how to “nail” this, is it smooth or finely textured, clean cut, free from wrinkles, how do you describe what you see). Redchicken9: yes.

Eyes: Large, bright, and prominent. Round in appearance. Redchicken9: yes.



Pullet B

Wattles: Medium in size, smooth, well-rounded, free from folds or wrinkles. Skin soft. Redchicken9: Yes. Pullet B has very well-rounded wattles.

Ear-lobes: Medium in size, oblong, pendent, smooth and free from folds, equally matched in size and shape. Redchicken9: Yes. Pullet A has nice ear lobes, while B's are not smooth and have a fold (also when we get to color not pure white).

Crest: Small, tufted, affixed above the eyes at the forefront of the skull with feathers narrow that extend back towards the blade of the comb. (Please, there’s a need for a lot of comments on how to describe the crest, both male and female). Redchicken9: Needs work. When I look more carefully at the pullets, it looks like some of the crest originates above the eye while some originates to the rear of the comb below the back base of the blade. Anyone else noticing this? I will have to look more carefully at all of them, as the above ones are small crested.

Head: Medium in length, symmetrical, well balanced, and of fine quality. Redchicken9: Yes, I think. Anyone know what the opposite of this would be?





Neck: Long and well covered with hackle feathers. Redchicken9: clearly the longer neck is better. Both pullets look annoyed at being photographed.




Back: Moderately broad it’s entire length, long, with an even slope to the tail. Feathers moderately broad and of sufficient length to carry well up to tail. Redchicken9: Yes or getting there in length on a few of mine.

Tail: Moderately long, carried at an angle of forty degrees (or 35?) above horizontal (see Punnett, text fig.1). Main tail feathers broad and overlapping. Redchicken9: Female tails vary in my flock, if you look at above three photos. I think 35 degrees should be the goal as 40 degrees doesn't differ much from the male's 45. The BPS says it is lower than the male.

Wings: Large and carried close to the body without dropping. Redchicken9: Yes.

Breast: Prominent, well-developed, and carried forward. Redchicken9: Yes.

 

[ChicKat]

Here is a link to a BYC discussion of the cream gene (not legbars...but some photos or links to photos of cream chickens)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/412954/the-cream-gene/50

 

[ChicKat]

If your street is Lone Tree Way, Dougherty Drive or Hickory Hollow - your color chart is going out today..... If you are someone who would like a chart - let me know since there are 4 left (or if you sent me address and it isn't one of those streets........ I have screwed up and lost it. so please resend to get one of the 4.

I will try to post some color comparisons once everyone who gets it in the mail has had time for the chart to travel to you.

 

[ChicKat]

Here is the link to the online poultry show----

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/684677/cream-legbars-show/70#post_9693603

Voting ends the end of October---so if you are a cream legbar enthusiast---hop over and vote for a cream legbar of your choice.

 

[fowlman01]

As a poultry judge my opinion is that the birds best showing what you want in a CL are the Scar birds a few pages back. The crest may be overdone....not sure as I am unclear what the crest should look like. Keep in mind what you "like" has no bearing on what the birds 'should" look like.....that is if you want them to replicate the breed as it was developed by the British. If you want something different they can look like anything you like.

Photo's of chickens will never show an accurate picture of the bird. They just give you an idea of what the bird looks like. You then must take your Standard and look to see if the chicken meets the description. No chicken is going to meet the description perfectly.

You will need a description of the crest in your Standard.

Walt

 

[ChicKat]

As a poultry judge my opinion is that the birds best showing what you want in a CL are the Scar birds a few pages back. The crest may be overdone....not sure as I am unclear what the crest should look like. Keep in mind what you "like" has no bearing on what the birds 'should" look like.....that is if you want them to replicate the breed as it was developed by the British. If you want something different they can look like anything you like.

Photo's of chickens will never show an accurate picture of the bird. They just give you an idea of what the bird looks like. You then must take your Standard and look to see if the chicken meets the description. No chicken is going to meet the description perfectly.

You will need a description of the crest in your Standard.

Walt

Thanks Walt,

I agree that photos don't give the full story. It is interesting too to pick up the Cream Legbar and feel the substantialness and the muscling of these birds...because they are more beefy (excuse the expression) than their appearance. This is something a judge would see right away.

I do however feel that there are some advantages for a virtual poultry show for the chickens...they needn't travel, they aren't exposed to any show-related microbes, viruses etc. I don't know that I would ever go to or participate in a real show and risk my birds to something that may even be on the shoes or clothes of a passer-by, but in online -- it is less risk (no risk)

I wonder if there is a 'middle ground' where owners in the USA needn't slavishly copy the UK standards and birds, (for example, I think that there is consensus to drop the olive eggs) -while still remaining true to Punnett's original aspirations. - It would be sad to feel the affection for the breed as it now exists here... and then discover that the SOP departs enough away from the birds that we got from GFF to be substantially different, and then one would have to go toward a standard of perfection that they liked less than what we now have. JMO.