Cream Legbar Working Group: Standard of Perfection

[tadkerson]

I had asked a question earlier on one of the CL threads regarding the gold color that is in the secondary feathers. You can see it in the wing bay of most American Cream Legbars. In my reading of Punnett's Cream Plummage paper and other articles that spoke on Cream and Autosomal Red I assumed the shoulder color was separate from the gold gene (not great with the technical jargon) and in the cream article Punnett says that the gold showing up in those feathers is an indicator of the presence of gold and separate from the chestnut in the shoulders...well that's how I read it.

The red in the wing bay is due to the E locus alleles interaction with the gold allele and as you said it is separate from the autosomal red. You have that correct.

The color in the males wing bay will be effected by the barring gene and the cream gene. The color will be pretty dull. It varies from bird to bird depending on how the sex linked barring gene dilutes the pigment.


I then assumed from the other readings on Autosomal Red and this cream gene (which seems to have a lot of questions left) that cream in the presence of Autosomal Red would indeed dull it's effect. I then assumed that the British birds are the result of very selective breeding and not entirely true to the wording on their own SOP so I have not really been looking to the shoulders for an elimination of the red but more of a lessened visual effect. Rather I have been using the color variation in the secondary feathers to indicate the degree of gold in my males. So far it has proven out but my boys are still young.

From what I have seen in the birds in the USA, there needs to be a standard for the birds so that the wide variation in colors can be eliminated. Some females are dark and others are light in color. The same is true for the chicks and males. Part of that is due to the barring gene but the greatest percentage is due to birds being genetically different and the quirky expression of the cream gene. There are modifiers that effect the barring gene and how it is expressed in the bird.

Males will add more red on the shoulders as they get older. If your males are sub adults, expect to see some change in the area covered and the depth of the autosomal red.

The problem with breeding for a reduction of autosomal red in males is this; I know of no way of determining the amount of autosomal red in a female that would be used to reduce the amount of red in male offspring. It would be guess work in my opinion. A good example of this can be seen in the golden duck wing female and a silver duck wing female- they are very much alike. The autosomal red is expressed in the male golden duck wing and not the female golden duck wing ( this is why she looks like a silver female).

Silver varieties usually lack autosomal red and a breeding regimen that would use a silver duck wing out cross may take care of the autosomal red but it may also cause the male birds to be overly white without the cream color in the hackles.

These are just my own musings and may be completely off base with all my assuming but I do have questions about this in my mind that I want to investigate. I'm interested in these ideas, I think it's great to throw around ideas philosophically and with open-minded conjecture even though I really am more interested in breeding and finding out for myself.


Have fun.

Tim

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks for the insights Tadkerson & blackbirds13

 

[robnorman24]

 

[normanack]

I want your rooster's comb.

 

[robnorman24]

Those pics are pretty older I will post some more to show how big and straight they are now. It is nice to have a place to show some of your birds to others!

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

You are not in the US, are you? This hen has lots of red on the wings and the color is more like a light brown

 

[robnorman24]

Yes I am in the us.

 

[normanack]

Color is apparently an issue with a lot of U.S. Cream Legbars. Just means we have work to do.

p.s. love your last name . . . we share it.

 

[ChicKat]

We have seen photos of gold legbars thanks to GaryDean26. I've been trying to find a silver Legbar, because I don't believe I have seen one -- until now. From our friends down under:

http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8013987&view=next

 

[Dahlisgrams]

Thanks to everyone for all of the genetics information. It will become very useful when choosing breeding stock. I'm trying to let mine grow out as long as possible before making a decision one way or another. There are some marked differences even as chicks. I vote for hatching as many as possible!

Is everyone keeping the "lines" separate? Are you creating your own "line"? Just wondering how y'all are going about it..