Cream Legbars

[sol2go]

Hi @duluthralphie ,

I don't consider these hackles too dark, do you not have black barring in the hen's hackles? I may have a picture of some that are too dark in my opinion, if that is helpful.

You're right, those pullets don't have great body barring. In pullets, I look for the best barring in the crest, hackle and under fluff. If the under fluff doesn't have good barring, that's a concern for me. I also look for barring in the tails which won't be as contrasty as the cockerels.

Black tips on pullet chest feathers are also an element I avoid in the breeding program.

The two light chicks were easy to autosex in person, and their offspring were fine. I agree there are better examples of the auto sexing characteristics, these were handy when I was paring up gender and color that season. Glad to know you are selecting for strong auto sexing characteristics.

Speckled Sussex are great, have never had the chicks, only a few that I rehomed from my friend's flock.

I have about 6 Cream Legbar breeding pens, and every time I think I have a better idea, I end up with two steps forward, one step backward. I will say, overall the progress is there. Perhaps as we become more refined in our understanding of the breed, we also recognize there is more work to be done. Sort of like that math problem: every move brings you half ways to the finish, but it is not possible to actually get to the finish line ( 100/2=50/2=25/2=12.5/2=6.25/2=3.125/2=1.5625/2=0.78125/2=0.390625 etc etc). We get incrementally much closer, but the refining is infinite and less measurable.

The white CL are specific to a particular line I have. I didn't really want to introduce it into another line but there is some value as you've pointed out.

I don't know how you (and many others) get through the demands of winter with even one pen of chickens. Congratulations. I thought about all of you when I was slogging through our wet winter and remembered it could be more challenging...

 

[duluthralphie]

Hi @duluthralphie ,

I don't consider these hackles too dark, do you not have black barring in the hen's hackles? I may have a picture of some that are too dark in my opinion, if that is helpful.

You're right, those pullets don't have great body barring. In pullets, I look for the best barring in the crest, hackle and under fluff. If the under fluff doesn't have good barring, that's a concern for me. I also look for barring in the tails which won't be as contrasty as the cockerels.

Black tips on pullet chest feathers are also an element I avoid in the breeding program.

The two light chicks were easy to autosex in person, and their offspring were fine. I agree there are better examples of the auto sexing characteristics, these were handy when I was paring up gender and color that season. Glad to know you are selecting for strong auto sexing characteristics.

Speckled Sussex are great, have never had the chicks, only a few that I rehomed from my friend's flock.

I have about 6 Cream Legbar breeding pens, and every time I think I have a better idea, I end up with two steps forward, one step backward. I will say, overall the progress is there. Perhaps as we become more refined in our understanding of the breed, we also recognize there is more work to be done. Sort of like that math problem: every move brings you half ways to the finish, but it is not possible to actually get to the finish line ( 100/2=50/2=25/2=12.5/2=6.25/2=3.125/2=1.5625/2=0.78125/2=0.390625 etc etc). We get incrementally much closer, but the refining is infinite and less measurable.

The white CL are specific to a particular line I have. I didn't really want to introduce it into another line but there is some value as you've pointed out.

I don't know how you (and many others) get through the demands of winter with even one pen of chickens. Congratulations. I thought about all of you when I was slogging through our wet winter and remembered it could be more challenging...

Thanks. The poor rooster combs got bitten badly this year.

I think we have a couple things going at once, which makes breeding them hard. We have what we perceive the SOP to mean. We have to know what the judges in our area want or think they mean.

I check the barring on mine at the top of the leg, in the fluff. If they are barred there I think they are good. I have found the autosexing to be good and bad. It is bad because I get stuck with a couple hundred roosters. Which means I have more mature rooster to pick from....

I am also not that fond of autosexing birds. Which is an oxymoron for someone with as many legbars as I have. I actually find some of the harder to sex ones have the best looks as adults. Talk about a contradiction!

.

I have been trying get lighted barring in the hackle, but if it gets too light you have no barring...arggggggh

If it gets too dark then the chest gets dark points! It never ends...Someday though...Someday.

 

[Bantambird]

I even lost a few toe tips to frostbite... Only roosters though. Every male lost a chunk of comb, and a few lost a middle toe. This winter was HARD!

 

[rottlady]

I would think in an autosexing breed first and primary selection has to be the autosexing, only select those chicks clearly patterned for their sex
Sell the chicks who are ambiguous asap so you re not tempted to use them later
Next to ME is going to be egg color
I have a nice little Cream girl but I won't behatching her eggs as they are minty green blue
I don't like golden crele but my other two hens lay marginally bluer eggs and they are crele so my problem is to get the blue eggs into a Cream hen lol
Everything else comes after these two things to me
But I'm also super super super small scale and will never make a difference so should just shut up

 

[duluthralphie]

I would think in an autosexing breed first and primary selection has to be the autosexing, only select those chicks clearly patterned for their sex
Sell the chicks who are ambiguous asap so you re not tempted to use them later
Next to ME is going to be egg color
I have a nice little Cream girl but I won't behatching her eggs as they are minty green blue
I don't like golden crele but my other two hens lay marginally bluer eggs and they are crele so my problem is to get the blue eggs into a Cream hen lol
Everything else comes after these two things to me
But I'm also super super super small scale and will never make a difference so should just shut up

It depends IMHO if you are breeding towards the SOP or not. I breed mainly show birds in all the breeds I have. A judge at a show does not know if the bird was easily sexed at hatching. He knows if it is close to the SOP or not.

I do hatch only the blue eggs, but that is a show thing too. If people see an egg laying in the cage that is minty green they will think something is amiss. The other thing is my customers expect a blue egg. They do not care if it is easily sexed or not, even though most want girls.

I know we have had the discussion before, and I know most people like the autosexing trait. I am not that fond of autosexing in any breed, It means I have more boys to kill is all. I hate killing chicks.

BTW Never shut up we all have opinions and should express them whether we have on Legbar or a thousand.

 

[windyridgefarm]

I would think in an autosexing breed first and primary selection has to be the autosexing, only select those chicks clearly patterned for their sex
Sell the chicks who are ambiguous asap so you re not tempted to use them later
Next to ME is going to be egg color
I have a nice little Cream girl but I won't behatching her eggs as they are minty green blue
I don't like golden crele but my other two hens lay marginally bluer eggs and they are crele so my problem is to get the blue eggs into a Cream hen lol
Everything else comes after these two things to me
But I'm also super super super small scale and will never make a difference so should just shut up

I am with you, This is an autosexing breed, if we let that get away from us we lose what is at the heart of the breed. We may as well list them as Easter Eggers. I certainly wouldnt sell hatching eggs or chicks from non sexable lines as Legbars (at least not without a disclaimer) because they just arent. I apologize in advance if I offend anyone but afterall it is why the breed was created in the first place. I dont show but all the ribbons wouldnt mean anything to me If I knew they didnt meet that qualification.

 

[duluthralphie]

I am with you, This is an autosexing breed, if we let that get away from us we lose what is at the heart of the breed. We may as well list them as Easter Eggers. I certainly wouldnt sell hatching eggs or chicks from non sexable lines as Legbars (at least not without a disclaimer) because they just arent. I apologize in advance if I offend anyone but afterall it is why the breed was created in the first place. I dont show but all the ribbons wouldnt mean anything to me If I knew they didnt meet that qualification.

On this I agree.

I would not either. I have show birds and breeding birds, they are not the same birds.

 

[sweetdreaming]

Hi y'all! I haven't been on this site for awhile but need to get y'alls opinions. I've had CLB's x 4 years now and have a nice hybridized combo of original Greenfire and Jill Rees birds. I have tried to keep cream hackles (but some approach silver), with a bit more chestnut on my males than the JR's. My problem is, I've got 15 replacement girls who are 3.5 mos old who are nearly (12!) all feathering out w/ about 50-70% melanized chests! Otherwise beautiful birds, good crests, body color, bigger than my originals (on purpose), and my boys have nice combs. I don't want to put these new girls in my breeder flock cuz I don't want to compound the dark breasts. These were hatched from a random combo of my existing 15 hens. What's y'all thoughts? New Roos? New girls? Are y'all still buying replacements from GFF or?? Anyone have nice chicks for sale (I'm in South TX). Thanks!

 

[duluthralphie]

Hi y'all! I haven't been on this site for awhile but need to get y'alls opinions. I've had CLB's x 4 years now and have a nice hybridized combo of original Greenfire and Jill Rees birds. I have tried to keep cream hackles (but some approach silver), with a bit more chestnut on my males than the JR's. My problem is, I've got 15 replacement girls who are 3.5 mos old who are nearly (12!) all feathering out w/ about 50-70% melanized chests! Otherwise beautiful birds, good crests, body color, bigger than my originals (on purpose), and my boys have nice combs. I don't want to put these new girls in my breeder flock cuz I don't want to compound the dark breasts. These were hatched from a random combo of my existing 15 hens. What's y'all thoughts? New Roos? New girls? Are y'all still buying replacements from GFF or?? Anyone have nice chicks for sale (I'm in South TX). Thanks!

To me, it is a pain! I would keep the lighter colored ones and breed them to lighter colored ones, cross my fingers and hope for the best.

That said breed for confirmation first, color second. if that helps.

Also know there is in the works a SOP for a gold crele or Crele gold legbar.

 

[GaryDean26]

I would think in an autosexing breed first and primary selection has to be the autosexing... only select those chicks clearly patterned for their sex
Sell the chicks who are ambiguous asap so you re not tempted to use them later

I have hear that a hundred times, but I fail to see how making auto-sexing the first priority in your flock improves it. Plus If it were really that bad then you would want to cull the chicks rather than sell them so that the defect didn't persist in the breed.

I was taught to never ever ever cull based on chick down before I started working with legbars and have never warmed up to the idea of culling for down markings. What the pioneers of the Autosexing breeds who made up the members of the original Auto-sexing club of Great Brittian did is toe punch chicks at birth. They would toe punch all the cockerels with good marking with a punch on the out side web of one foot and all the pullets with good marking with a punch through the outside web of the other foot. They then would grow everyone out. Those with the good marking and those with the bad. when it came down to selecting breeder they would know which ones had good down markings as a chick and which didn't. I do the same think. Those with good markings get noted and those with poor marking get noted and I grow everyone out. I have found that that pullets with superior markings often have really poor mature plumage (over melonized). I have found that those with poor markings often have really good mature plumage (they are possibly carrying recessive color patterns that show up in the down but no the mature plumage).

I know that I can clean up poor down makings a lot easier than I can improve type so I weigh the down color with type to make the final decision on who stays and who goes. I have been doing this for 5 years and still and 100% accurate on sexing chicks. I haven't got one wrong yet. Not even the poorly marked ones.

Hi y'all! I haven't been on this site for awhile but need to get y'alls opinions. I've had CLB's x 4 years now and have a nice hybridized combo of original Greenfire and Jill Rees birds. I have tried to keep cream hackles (but some approach silver), with a bit more chestnut on my males than the JR's. My problem is, I've got 15 replacement girls who are 3.5 mos old who are nearly (12!) all feathering out w/ about 50-70% melanized chests! Otherwise beautiful birds, good crests, body color, bigger than my originals (on purpose), and my boys have nice combs. I don't want to put these new girls in my breeder flock cuz I don't want to compound the dark breasts. These were hatched from a random combo of my existing 15 hens. What's y'all thoughts? New Roos? New girls? Are y'all still buying replacements from GFF or?? Anyone have nice chicks for sale (I'm in South TX). Thanks!

Sweetdreaming,

Nice to see you on here again. Its been a while. No...no replacements from GFF. I am line breeding. Any time you bring new blood into the flock in creates unpredicatability in the breeding. To lessen the effects of the new blood you can select a 2-3 hens from your 15 and breed a cockerel to them. You then can take the best cockerel from that group to breed to your 15 hens next year (or in the fall). That is a safer way to do things. If the dark breasted hens have better type then it is always worth it. Color is the easiest thing to clean up. Type is more difficult to improve.