Cream Legbars

[duluthralphie]

I have hear that a hundred times, but I fail to see how making auto-sexing the first priority in your flock improves it. Plus If it were really that bad then you would want to cull the chicks rather than sell them so that the defect didn't persist in the breed.

I was taught to never ever ever cull based on chick down before I started working with legbars and have never warmed up to the idea of culling for down markings. What the pioneers of the Autosexing breeds who made up the members of the original Auto-sexing club of Great Brittian did is toe punch chicks at birth. They would toe punch all the cockerels with good marking with a punch on the out side web of one foot and all the pullets with good marking with a punch through the outside web of the other foot. They then would grow everyone out. Those with the good marking and those with the bad. when it came down to selecting breeder they would know which ones had good down markings as a chick and which didn't. I do the same think. Those with good markings get noted and those with poor marking get noted and I grow everyone out. I have found that that pullets with superior markings often have really poor mature plumage (over melonized). I have found that those with poor markings often have really good mature plumage (they are possibly carrying recessive color patterns that show up in the down but no the mature plumage).

I know that I can clean up poor down makings a lot easier than I can improve type so I weigh the down color with type to make the final decision on who stays and who goes. I have been doing this for 5 years and still and 100% accurate on sexing chicks. I haven't got one wrong yet. Not even the poorly marked ones.

Sweetdreaming,

Nice to see you on here again. Its been a while. No...no replacements from GFF. I am line breeding. Any time you bring new blood into the flock in creates unpredicatability in the breeding. To lessen the effects of the new blood you can select a 2-3 hens from your 15 and breed a cockerel to them. You then can take the best cockerel from that group to breed to your 15 hens next year (or in the fall). That is a safer way to do things. If the dark breasted hens have better type then it is always worth it. Color is the easiest thing to clean up. Type is more difficult to improve.

You said it so much better than I did, Thanks...

 

[1st PlacePecker]

Great thread. Thanks for sharing everyone.

 

[DeborahSfbay]

Hello,

I just bought three J Rees Roos from Greenfire farms. I would like to keep one to breed with my CCL (non Rees Hens) I got from GF two years ago. Half of my hens are redish and the rest are what I'd consider cream. The all lay a very clear blue (no hint of green) eggs. Two of the Roos I got had the white spot and the third was cream yellowish with no spot but clearly a boy.

I understand that the Rees lines are much more cream that the previous lines. I was wondering if anyone knew if I used the cream roo would his female offspring still have the distinct chipmunk markings that allow you to tell if they are girls? Or would they be washed out with the cream color like he is? Should I stick with one of the ones that has the distinct spot to ensure proper sexing?

Also I hear that the Rees birds do not produce as blue of an egg as the old lines... some say even say more of a mint green? Would the cream boy produce a more greenish egg or does that not have anything to do with it? My guess is my girls have such a nice color blue it should not be that washed out?

Here are pictures at 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Deborah

 

[dheltzel]

Hello,

I just bought three J Rees Roos from Greenfire farms. I would like to keep one to breed with my CCL (non Rees Hens) I got from GF two years ago. Half of my hens are redish and the rest are what I'd consider cream. The all lay a very clear blue (no hint of green) eggs. Two of the Roos I got had the white spot and the third was cream yellowish with no spot but clearly a boy.

I understand that the Rees lines are much more cream that the previous lines. I was wondering if anyone knew if I used the cream roo would his female offspring still have the distinct chipmunk markings that allow you to tell if they are girls? Or would they be washed out with the cream color like he is? Should I stick with one of the ones that has the distinct spot to ensure proper sexing?

Also I hear that the Rees birds do not produce as blue of an egg as the old lines... some say even say more of a mint green? Would the cream boy produce a more greenish egg or does that not have anything to do with it? My guess is my girls have such a nice color blue it should not be that washed out?

Here are pictures at 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Deborah

Even though the JR line has been bred for showing (more inbreeding in various forms), there is still considerable variation in their appearance. I had a flock of an older import and bought a group of JR chicks 2 years ago to do exactly what you are doing. I couldn't be happier with them, very blue egg and lots of them. The pullets from the cross were greatly improved overall in appearance and they seem to lay better than the old line and the purebred JR line (got some hybrid vigor going there, I think). I you have the space, keep all of the boys and judge them by their adult appearance. I flock breed and have 7 roos in my pure JR flock. This year I am producing pure JR's and 75% JR's. I don't think there is much difference between them anymore.

I keep them for pleasure and eggs, not showing, so I can't help with judging their appearance as they would be judged on the show circuit, but I like the way mine look and I make chicks available to lots of local backyard chicken keepers, and I have yet to hear anyone say they didn't love their Legbars and the size, color and quantity of their eggs. I know we all want really blue, but I have found substantial demand for Olive Eggers that are sexable and a Legbar X Welbar cross does that.

You made a good choice, getting some JR cockerels. I have found several have gotten a little aggressive, but I chalk that up to a "Napoleon complex", since they are the smallest roos in my coop and probably feel the need to act big in front of their harem. I generally cull for that, which is why I keep extra roos in the flock, so any that come at me can get an instant opportunity to join the free ranging flock. That is another reason to keep all 3 of the boys, you may find one has a personality flaw you don't wish to tolerate.


She's not grumpy, just doesn't care for having her picture taken.

 

[DeborahSfbay]

Thanks,

What are Legbar X Welbar cross? I am interested in a sex link olive egger using my CCL rooster. A friend of mine has Cuckoo Marans and my last rooster (who was lost to a hawk) covered the hens. I did notice that the female chicks were more golden and the roos were more silver. However I gave the pullets back to my friend and she forgot to band them so I was not sure my observation was right. Could you explain the Legbar X Welbar cross that produces sex links olive eggers?


Deborah

 

[dheltzel]

Thanks,

What are Legbar X Welbar cross? I am interested in a sex link olive egger using my CCL rooster. A friend of mine has Cuckoo Marans and my last rooster (who was lost to a hawk) covered the hens. I did notice that the female chicks were more golden and the roos were more silver. However I gave the pullets back to my friend and she forgot to band them so I was not sure my observation was right. Could you explain the Legbar X Welbar cross that produces sex links olive eggers?

Deborah

Legbars and Welbars are both autosexing, meaning they have wild-type chick down plus sexlinked barring (there are a few other genes they should NOT have to be properly autosexing, and they lack those). Because the genetics of autosexing are so specific, crossing 2 autosexing breeds will always yield autosexing chicks. I created Welbars from my Welsummers (see welbars.com for the story) and they are very strongly autosexing and produce eggs as dark as the Welsummers I created them from. By crossing them to Legbars, I get autosexing Olive Eggers. These will breed true for autosexing, but not necessarily for egg color, meaning if you cross a pair of these OE's, about 25% will lack the blue egg gene and lay brown eggs. Because of the unpredictability in the F2, I do not plan to create a true breeding line of autosexing OE's, but rather continue to use Legbar pullets in my Welbar pens to create as many OE's as I want. They also pick up significant hybrid vigor and seem to grow faster than the pure Legbars, as least from what I've seen so far. The cross would work equally well the other way (Welbar pullets) but I have more Legbars and they lay better and hatch better than the Welbar eggs. Last batch of 29 OE eggs resulted in 29 chicks, and 22 were pullets !!

"Sexlinks" are altogether different thing. There are 2 major coloring variations in sexlinks, Red and Black. What you saw in your chicks was the Red sexlink effect, even though the birds were primarily black (right? I've never done that cross). Because both parents are fully barred, there is no way to create a Black Sexlink from this cross. You can easily create Olive Egger black Sexlinks with either Cuckoo Marans or Legbar pullets, covered by the opposite egg color black cock, like this:
1. Cuckoo Marans pullets X Black Ameraucana roo
2. Legbar pullets X Black Marans roo (Copper or plain black)

In both these crosses, the male chicks will have a white head spot and barred feathers, while the female chicks will lack a headspot and feathers will be all black. If there are any I am not sure of, I wait a few days and check the tips of the developing primaries, any white tipping indicates a male.

 

[terrip824]

This is interesting. I have crossed my Rhodebars to my Cream Legbars & I am waiting for eggs from the pullet. I was expecting an OE. So some of the F2's will lay brown eggs? Any way of predicting which? Color maybe? I crossed them to get a year round egg layer & better shell quality on the Rhodebars. They are in the same pen as the CLs but there is a big difference in shell thickness. They all have oyster shells available & eat a good diet. I also like the personality traits in the RB better.

 

[dheltzel]

No way to tell what color egg the F2 from that cross will lay. 75% chance it will be green, 25% chance of light brown. I can't sell chicks where I have to explain odds like that.

I know what you mean about the shells on Rhodebar eggs. Mine laid well, but funny shapes and other stuff made me get rid of my RB's. I found the RB's much more aggressive with other birds than the Legbars. My legbar pullets are so extremely docile I have to be careful they are not picked on. The roos, OTOH, seem to get all the aggression missing in the pullets and more. Some are nasty little guys that get culled because of personality issues. I always raise a bunch more Legbar roos than I need so that I can cull as needed.

 

[terrip824]

I have had issues with the CL roosters too. Best one I had hated me . He ender up being culled . What I find interesting is the barring pattern appears the same in both roosters but different in the pullet. These are the crosses. CL/RB. I plan to cross them RB/CL to see if there is a difference using a pure RB rooster. Any ideas?

 

[duluthralphie]

I have had issues with the CL roosters too. Best one I had hated me . He ender up being culled . What I find interesting is the barring pattern appears the same in both roosters but different in the pullet. These are the crosses. CL/RB. I plan to cross them RB/CL to see if there is a difference using a pure RB rooster. Any ideas?

If you cross them please do not sell them to anyone as pure legbars. I am not against crosses and I make my own, but I make sure people know they are mutts when I sell them....