Cream Legbars

[Brada Puhi]

Aloha,

Cynstaub, please tell us the name of the seller. The shame is on her and reputation is what gets buyers the better product. If nobody outs the bad sellers, theyʻll keep on doing it.

Kden, Puhi

 

[Brada Puhi]

Most of those birds are mixed. Very obvious!

 

[KPenley]

This has always puzzled me, and I have never been able to come up with a good explanation, but why is there so much fraud, scamming and unprofessionalism in the animal trade worlds?  I have seen the most disreputable practices in play among those who deal in horses, dogs, cats, and even reptiles.  Why is that?  Is it because, compared to an industrial product, there is little initial start-up capital?  Is it because any yahoo can throw two animals in a pen and let them do what comes naturally?  I'm sad to say from my two years of raising chickens, it seems to be rampant in this discipline as well.  At the least, I encounter rude, unprofessional individuals emboldened by more demand than they can meet; at the worst, I find outright shysters who have no problem selling mislabeled breeds and sexes.  What is a well-meaning hobbyist to do?

Which brings me to my real question for the excellent folks in the CL thread: Can anyone help me locate a reputable breeder willing to sell stock?  As previously mentioned, I have have birds for a couple of years, so I am not a rank newbie, but still have much to learn.  I have definitely been bitten by the bug, and want to expand my knowledge and enjoyment of chickens.  I would like to start working on breeding to a (proposed) standard, and I like the CL breed.  They are fun little intriguing birds.  I like the egg color (I have a VERY small egg-selling side business, as most amateurs do), and I would like to work with them.  I have no interest in pumping out eggs/chicks and becoming a "peddler" as I see so many others doing here and on auction sites.  I do not want to simply buy "hot" breeds and make money taking advantage like what happened to cynstaub, and other countless individuals who trusted a misrepresentation.  All I want to do is learn and improve the breed.

Does anyone have good suggestions for a business or individual that would be willing to sell two to three breeding trios (or quartets) of day-old crested cream legbars for a beginner breeder at a reasonable fair market price, and would be willing to stay in contact to develop a long-term/mentor relationship? 

I realize this is a long shot and will likely engender many scoffs and eye-rolls, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask.

Have you had a chance to check the Cream Legbar Club member list? I would still recommend doing your homework, but there are some hard working breeders in your neck of the woods. Best wishes!

 

[chicken pickin]

Im not sure how I feel about calling out other people on the birds they breed and sell, maybe Im just an avoid conflict kind of girl.

I was wondering about this a bit, I know a lot of us here DO breed to standard and I know me for one I do get a little irritated at the people that breed everything and sell everything because to them Cream Legbar x Cream Legbar must = Cream Legbar. Of course we know thats not how it works and a lot of work goes into making a decent looking Cream Legbar.

Do we have the right to tell people they aren't doing it correctly or that their breeder birds are not up to what we consider quality birds or at least good starter birds.

I noticed recently a BYC member that sells CL and has offered up pics of the parent stock and to me they are decent though one male looks crossed, but a picture another member posted of a "pullet CL" to me does not look as such and I feel it is more mixed breed cockerel. That person traded 4 laying hens for this very young what they were told was a CL pullet.

I almost feel compelled to tell the seller what I see because maybe she doesn't know that her birds aren't producing a good auto sexing chick or maybe she is very confused but I also feel since I was not part of that sale I have no place in that. Or maybe she does know what she is doing and that one offspring I saw was a fluke?

How do we as CL breeders do our best to let other new folks just learning about Cream Legbar to know what to look for. These CL threads here on BYC are an amazing start to helping others and hopefully its enough for people to learn a bit. Should we call out other breeders or approach them with what we see or do we keep our thoughts on our own flocks and worry about what we are producing not what others are producing.

I think its a tough one because these are just chickens and not everyone is a serious breeder. I think this is what makes it hard on breeders, but also makes it totally worth the task of bettering our own flocks.

Not always is a Cream Legbar a Cream Legbar just because someone tells you it is.

 

[dheltzel]

CCL's are suffering the same fate as other breeds, they just (still) fetch a higher price than say, New Hampshires. We have the German strain of New Hampshires, gorgeous show birds. Locally, no one wants them, or at least won't pay more than straight run NH's from a hatchery, so we eat their eggs just like the mixed breeds in our laying flock. Should people appreciate the effort that went into that strain (and still goes into it, they are not an easy bird to keep)? I think so, and most poultry fanciers might agree in principle. The realistic view is that some people will always want the top quality New Hampshires and will pay a good price for them, but most people will get hatchery chicks that are less like real NH's and more like orange colored "production reds".

I can see CCL's taking the same course and becoming a very common backyard chicken. I submit there is nothing anyone can do to prevent that, so you might as well embrace it. The days of scammers getting $20 for badly bred CCL pullets are numbered. When they are as common as barred rocks, the price of the "common bred" ones will drop to match the other breeds. Well bred CCL's will always command a premium from people who appreciate them, but the people with backyard flocks will be happy enough with the cheap ones, and they may replace many of the "easter eggers" that are sold now. Backyard enthusiasts may keep CCL's and then go to a show and see "real" ones and decide to pursue the very best, just as many before them.

 

[ChicKat]

CCL's are suffering the same fate as other breeds, they just (still) fetch a higher price than say, New Hampshires. We have the German strain of New Hampshires, gorgeous show birds. Locally, no one wants them, or at least won't pay more than straight run NH's from a hatchery, so we eat their eggs just like the mixed breeds in our laying flock. Should people appreciate the effort that went into that strain (and still goes into it, they are not an easy bird to keep)? I think so, and most poultry fanciers might agree in principle. The realistic view is that some people will always want the top quality New Hampshires and will pay a good price for them, but most people will get hatchery chicks that are less like real NH's and more like orange colored "production reds".

I can see CCL's taking the same course and becoming a very common backyard chicken. I submit there is nothing anyone can do to prevent that, so you might as well embrace it. The days of scammers getting $20 for badly bred CCL pullets are numbered. When they are as common as barred rocks, the price of the "common bred" ones will drop to match the other breeds. Well bred CCL's will always command a premium from people who appreciate them, but the people with backyard flocks will be happy enough with the cheap ones, and they may replace many of the "easter eggers" that are sold now. Backyard enthusiasts may keep CCL's and then go to a show and see "real" ones and decide to pursue the very best, just as many before them.

Excellent insights ... or should I say 'eggcellent' -

The origination of the Cream Legbar was not for a show bird - but rather for a production chicken. I like the idea of a CL in everyone's back yard -- and I like the notion that it could be an EE replacement for people because I know a number of people who got EEs that turned into roosters and they had to divest. Add to that the fact that some 'breeders' will sacrifice the health and vigor, the egg-laying prowess - and in some cases it seems even the most important trait for the breed Autosexing to win big in the show ring. -- There was talk that some UK CLs had 'lost their autosexing ability'.

 

[ChicKat]

Aloha,

Cynstaub, please tell us the name of the seller. The shame is on her and reputation is what gets buyers the better product. If nobody outs the bad sellers, theyʻll keep on doing it.

Kden, Puhi

Im not sure how I feel about calling out other people on the birds they breed and sell, maybe Im just an avoid conflict kind of girl.

I was wondering about this a bit, I know a lot of us here DO breed to standard and I know me for one I do get a little irritated at the people that breed everything and sell everything because to them Cream Legbar x Cream Legbar must = Cream Legbar. Of course we know thats not how it works and a lot of work goes into making a decent looking Cream Legbar.

Do we have the right to tell people they aren't doing it correctly or that their breeder birds are not up to what we consider quality birds or at least good starter birds.

I noticed recently a BYC member that sells CL and has offered up pics of the parent stock and to me they are decent though one male looks crossed, but a picture another member posted of a "pullet CL" to me does not look as such and I feel it is more mixed breed cockerel. That person traded 4 laying hens for this very young what they were told was a CL pullet.

I almost feel compelled to tell the seller what I see because maybe she doesn't know that her birds aren't producing a good auto sexing chick or maybe she is very confused but I also feel since I was not part of that sale I have no place in that. Or maybe she does know what she is doing and that one offspring I saw was a fluke?

How do we as CL breeders do our best to let other new folks just learning about Cream Legbar to know what to look for. These CL threads here on BYC are an amazing start to helping others and hopefully its enough for people to learn a bit. Should we call out other breeders or approach them with what we see or do we keep our thoughts on our own flocks and worry about what we are producing not what others are producing.

I think its a tough one because these are just chickens and not everyone is a serious breeder. I think this is what makes it hard on breeders, but also makes it totally worth the task of bettering our own flocks.

Not always is a Cream Legbar a Cream Legbar just because someone tells you it is.

Both of you have VERY good points.... here is one thing regarding Brada's comments, I think BYC being the very friendly community disallows calling someone out in the forums. I think that the avenue would be that the buyer must voice their disapproval in the buy-sell-trade feedback. That being said -- if this person is selling chickens that are not right -- either through accident or as a scammer -- a complaint should be registered with BYC -- it could result in their ban from selling.

I agree with chicken pickin that those of us NOT a part of the transaction - probably don't have much right in it...BUT - didn't this seller sell male chicks as females? or something. That really is unexcusable. Then they didn't make it good for the buyer - when it obviously wasn't the buyers error. -- At this point I believe it becomes damaging to the breed. And that way hurts everyone. Most folks who want chickens don't want to show them. So while I mostly agree with Chicken pickin - I disagree on a couple of points (naturally) --

How to reslove it? -- I almost wish we could set up a 'Dear Abby' - so people could clear their first Cls with someone knowledable about the breed. I also think that we should keep a list of offending - non-recommended sellers -- -Like the Better Business Bureau-- which is just bought... But if someone were to ask -- Dear Cream Legbar Club- I'm thinking of buying CLs from this vendor -- is their name on the do not fly list? --- We wouldn't be publishing - advertising the 'bad' sellers -- but we could protect those who cared to filter their purchase from the ones that either don't know enough or don't care enough to make sure that they are selling - autosexing, blue-egg gene carrying, crested light fowl that are healthy, hardy, and highly productive.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Phage]

Oh & no, I do not have photos of parent birds. Seller told me that these chicks were hatched from pullet eggs from birds she got from GFF.
Yes, the seller is still active here on BYC.

Maybe they got a mixed cockerel from GFF. Still that is not an excuse, especially if they have seen your birds that are plainly not put bred.

I have Legbars including some Rees birds. When they start laying you can have some eggs or chicks. We are in San Diego but go up to LA fairly often.

 

[BeachBumBiddies]

to jump in...beware of frostbite on your roos....but then you're in TX.......

haha..this is the only thing I don't like about the Legabrs. I was thinking of making a lil bonnet for my cocks comb....lol

 

[BeachBumBiddies]

This has always puzzled me, and I have never been able to come up with a good explanation, but why is there so much fraud, scamming and unprofessionalism in the animal trade worlds? I have seen the most disreputable practices in play among those who deal in horses, dogs, cats, and even reptiles. Why is that? Is it because, compared to an industrial product, there is little initial start-up capital? Is it because any yahoo can throw two animals in a pen and let them do what comes naturally? I'm sad to say from my two years of raising chickens, it seems to be rampant in this discipline as well. At the least, I encounter rude, unprofessional individuals emboldened by more demand than they can meet; at the worst, I find outright shysters who have no problem selling mislabeled breeds and sexes. What is a well-meaning hobbyist to do?

Which brings me to my real question for the excellent folks in the CL thread: Can anyone help me locate a reputable breeder willing to sell stock? As previously mentioned, I have have birds for a couple of years, so I am not a rank newbie, but still have much to learn. I have definitely been bitten by the bug, and want to expand my knowledge and enjoyment of chickens. I would like to start working on breeding to a (proposed) standard, and I like the CL breed. They are fun little intriguing birds. I like the egg color (I have a VERY small egg-selling side business, as most amateurs do), and I would like to work with them. I have no interest in pumping out eggs/chicks and becoming a "peddler" as I see so many others doing here and on auction sites. I do not want to simply buy "hot" breeds and make money taking advantage like what happened to cynstaub, and other countless individuals who trusted a misrepresentation. All I want to do is learn and improve the breed.

Does anyone have good suggestions for a business or individual that would be willing to sell two to three breeding trios (or quartets) of day-old crested cream legbars for a beginner breeder at a reasonable fair market price, and would be willing to stay in contact to develop a long-term/mentor relationship?

I realize this is a long shot and will likely engender many scoffs and eye-rolls, but I figure it doesn't hurt to ask.

If you have a bator, i could sell you some eggs. I haven't started shipping chicks yet, so it's a little daunting. lol How does $2/egg, plus $15 shipping sound? I have had about a 95% hatch rate with these guys. You can see my pics on my page. If you want to wait 6 months, i'll also have Reese line eggs. Let me know if you're interested.