Cream Legbars

[nicalandia]

Nicalandia - It could be that the crooked comb in the example that you are saying is better, could be a disqualifier of that bird were it to be in a show ring. -

If I were a judge, I think just from the photo, I would select GFF 2013 rooster above the others..

Except the the roo witht he Crooked comb is genetically and phenotypically cream crele and none of the roos on the GFF(pics I posted) are cram at all. let me tell you this one more time... they are NOT CREAM CRELE phenotypically....

I would rather work with a crooked comb Real cream bird thant a perfect Crele crested legbar which alot of you guys have including yours chickat

 

[lonnyandrinda]

The best method I have seen for weighing live chickens is to hang a kill cone on a fish scale and then pop the bird into the cone. Forces them to hold still for a live weighing! Haven't tried it myself but it sounds like it would work.

 

[chickenlady3]

Hi Everyone,
I have several 2nd and 3rd generation GFF Cream Legbars. I have really been selective in my breeding process and am thrilled with how everyone is turning out. Yesterday I went to the hatcher and pulled out my lastest batch of beauties, and lo and behold... there were 2 white (yellow really, with perfect auto sexing markings, just in a different color) babies!!

I have been researching these guys for 2 years and there are mixed arguments as to whether these are to be culled or treasured. As a person somewhat removed from this argument (as I had neither encountered these in my program or even seen them in person), I really didn't have too much of an opinion either way. I have noted the argument of recessive genetics being key as to why they need to be culled, but if they possess the auto sexing markation and will in fact produce a blue egg, is there something I'm missing as to why they might not be just simply a color mutation? I find myself now forced to come to a conclusion as to where I sit on this argument. Can anyone map out there stance either for or against, to help me make an educated decision? Thanks so much!!

 

[normanack]

Hi Everyone,
I have several 2nd and 3rd generation GFF Cream Legbars. I have really been selective in my breeding process and am thrilled with how everyone is turning out. Yesterday I went to the hatcher and pulled out my lastest batch of beauties, and lo and behold... there were 2 white (yellow really, with perfect auto sexing markings, just in a different color) babies!!

I have been researching these guys for 2 years and there are mixed arguments as to whether these are to be culled or treasured. As a person somewhat removed from this argument (as I had neither encountered these in my program or even seen them in person), I really didn't have too much of an opinion either way. I have noted the argument of recessive genetics being key as to why they need to be culled, but if they possess the auto sexing markation and will in fact produce a blue egg, is there something I'm missing as to why they might not be just simply a color mutation? I find myself now forced to come to a conclusion as to where I sit on this argument. Can anyone map out there stance either for or against, to help me make an educated decision? Thanks so much!!

Well, this isn't an educated opinion, so take it for the little (nothing) it's worth -- Seems to me that if you keep the white birds separate (or don't hatch their eggs), you can delay any decision indefinitely.

 

[ChicKat]

Hi Everyone,
I have several 2nd and 3rd generation GFF Cream Legbars. I have really been selective in my breeding process and am thrilled with how everyone is turning out. Yesterday I went to the hatcher and pulled out my lastest batch of beauties, and lo and behold... there were 2 white (yellow really, with perfect auto sexing markings, just in a different color) babies!!

I have been researching these guys for 2 years and there are mixed arguments as to whether these are to be culled or treasured. As a person somewhat removed from this argument (as I had neither encountered these in my program or even seen them in person), I really didn't have too much of an opinion either way. I have noted the argument of recessive genetics being key as to why they need to be culled, but if they possess the auto sexing markation and will in fact produce a blue egg, is there something I'm missing as to why they might not be just simply a color mutation? I find myself now forced to come to a conclusion as to where I sit on this argument. Can anyone map out there stance either for or against, to help me make an educated decision? Thanks so much!!

Some people are keeping and breeding the whites, simply because they LIKE them. Here is where it is up to the individual chicken owner to decide what they want and what they have room for. If they are autosexing and lay blue eggs--those are the two traits that most people who favor Cream Legbars want in the birds.

I think perhaps part of any controversy is that one coloration needs to be selected to obtain recognition by the American Poultry Association (APA) - since the APA requires a detailed description of the bird, and coloration is part of that detailed description, one color has to be settled on as the Standard of Perfection. For the most part, the USA is modeling on the SOP used in the UK, which has been derived from the one that R.C. Punnett himself used to get the birds recognized as a breed. So the coloration described is the classical coloration from Punnett. Without recognition by the APA, a bird in the USA isn't a breed. (Or officially isn't a breed)--- in the UK it is a breed because it has been recognized. This would matter most in the showing arena.

So if you had a goal of showing birds, then you would find the white ones less desirable because they wouldn't be recognized as the 'correct' coloration. But if you want the birds for your own flock, for blue eggs, and for autosexing, and you like the white variation -- then there should be nothing stopping you from raising them.

Hope this helps a little bit. It's important once an SOP is defined, that birds bred match that SOP to a certain percentage. That would be the only adverse reaction to anything that isn't the classic Cream Legbar - it pulls away from contributing to the breeding that can achieve SOP. But if that isn't your objective (the SOP) then, it shouldn't be of importance.

It's a bit strange to say Cream Legbars aren't a breed---maybe better terminology would be not a recognized by the APA breed.

I don't think anyone has done this yet, but if someone were aiming to gain a very light bird, I wonder what would happen if a recessive white were bred to a normal colored bird. Would the normal dominate, and the recessive white genes be passed along, or would the entire feathering of the offspring be lightened.

Bottom line, I guess you have to answer for your own self how you want to develop your flock and what you want them to be. But I think I may have shown some light on why some people don't want to have the white ones.

 

[1muttsfan]

I agree, as long as you don't use them in your Cream program and either use them for eggs or for a white breeding program, they shouldn't be a concern. Many different color variations in other breeds started the same way. There may be some interest in a white Legbar, others on here have some.

 

[ChicKat]

Except the the roo witht he Crooked comb is genetically and phenotypically cream crele and none of the roos on the GFF(pics I posted) are cram at all. let me tell you this one more time... they are NOT CREAM CRELE phenotypically....

I would rather work with a crooked comb Real cream bird thant a perfect Crele crested legbar which alot of you guys have including yours chickat

Hi nicalandia,

Here's a place where we come down on opposite sides of the question. But the one that I just transported away today did have a crooked (diagonal across his forehead) comb, in addition to his flamboyant coloration - so I wasn't considering him as one to use for flock development.

 

[nicalandia]

Hi nicalandia,

Here's a place where we come down on opposite sides of the question. But the one that I just transported away today did have a crooked (diagonal across his forehead) comb, in addition to his flamboyant coloration - so I wasn't considering him as one to use for flock development.

 

[dretd]

Hi Nicalandia, I am still having trouble mentally picturing the differences you have talked about regarding a silver crele and a cream crele. What are the tell-tale signs to distinguish two birds phenotypes so you know what their genotypes are?

Do you have photographs of two different roosters with two copies of the barring gene (to eliminate the double vs single barring variable) of a silver crele vs a creme crele. It would be extremely helpful for me to see these guys with my eyeball since I just can't translate the letters and plus signs into a mental image. Thanks in advance!

 

[nicalandia]

Hi Nicalandia

Hi there..!

Hi Nicalandia, I am still having trouble mentally picturing the differences you have talked about regarding a silver crele and a cream crele. What are the tell-tale signs to distinguish two birds phenotypes so you know what their genotypes are?

as I said earlier "Cream Crele" should look near/almost like Silver Crele, but not entirely, while they should look more diluted than your double barred creles(see henks crele dutch bird) they should never be so diluted to pass for silver crele roosters. a tale tale would be some chestnut on the shoulders(see Dragonoxeweasel outstanding male)

Do you have photographs of two different roosters with two copies of the barring gene (to eliminate the double vs single barring variable) of a silver crele vs a creme crele. It would be extremely helpful for me to see these guys with my eyeball since I just can't translate the letters and plus signs into a mental image. Thanks in advance!

I have to go now but I'll post pics as soon as I can