Cream Legbars

[jerryse]

Is anyone else having trouble hatching Cream Legbar eggs? I feel awful, we have a bunch go in to lockdown, and then 6 hatch.
Our very first hatch, with our mixed eggs, went great. Hatch rate was about 80%. Our last hatch was crap. Frustrating!

Yes my first shipment had nothing hatch . Sounds to me like inbreeding depression . Since the crosses hatch great . I have made arrangements for started birds in June. I have noticed one thing with the standard that I consider to be a problem from a breeding standpoint . Now this is only my personal opinion so go easy on me. I see they should be crow wing and not duck wing . There are lots of good laying light brown leghorns (duck wing) but black leghorn (crow wing) are harder to find . I would think a shot of leghorn blood would help improve vigor . I just wonder why the creators of the breed did not go with duck wing. Seems simpler for new blood.

 

[KPenley]

Yes my first shipment had nothing hatch . Sounds to me like inbreeding depression . Since the crosses hatch great . I have made arrangements for started birds in June. I have noticed one thing with the standard that I consider to be a problem from a breeding standpoint . Now this is only my personal opinion so go easy on me. I see they should be crow wing and not duck wing . There are lots of good laying light brown leghorns (duck wing) but black leghorn (crow wing) are harder to find . I would think a shot of leghorn blood would help improve vigor . I just wonder why the creators of the breed did not go with duck wing. Seems simpler for new blood.  

This one of those conundrums in the genetics. Punnett and Pease recommended that the brown Leghorn hen be used to introduce new blood. The pullet offspring could then be used to continue a healthier line ( keeping an eye on crests of course), and the cockerels culled.

@Ashdoes, I have had amazing results hatching between October and March, and terrible results hatching the warm months. One of my last pairings also resulted in 8 fully developed chicks that did not pip, and 4/14 died in the first couple of weeks. So that pairing is no longer going to be continued.

 

[KPenley]

I know this is very ignorant of me to ask, but why is it so bad for them to have gold tones? When I look at pictures of the breed I find the ones that aren't 'show quality' because of their color patterns to be more beautiful that the others. What causes them to be more golden? Poor breeding?

Have you had a chance to read the draft2 standard? I would encourage you to read it and breed your birds to it to the best of your understanding and of course you'll always find plenty of advice and friendly debate here if you have questions!

The standard was based on the PCGB standard with APA wording, and is posted here at bYC, or you can go to creamlegbarclub.com and It is listed under one of the left hand side links.

Also, a few people are pursuing the Light Brown variety if you're interested in it ( bright straw colored golds, reds, etc)!

 

[KPenley]

@Kathy, because you mentioned it, and Elissa, because you asked me to look into it...Update: I received my 1971 copy of the British Poultry Standards book, the earliest I have with the Cream Legbar included and the chick down is the same then as the current 10th edition ( described as same as silver). I'm still looking for a hard copy of the 1964 Autosexing Annual since all I have is a typed copy.

 

[ChicKat]

Kestlyn, maybe you could ask someone in the UK?

 

[ChicKat]

Here is a gold-colored & double barred rooster for those who want to get to the bottom of it:


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=rc&uact=3&dur=4509&page=1&start=0&ndsp=43

Here is another:
http://autosexing-poultry.co.uk/wordpress/about/news/

Does the Welbar rooster have double barring you may ask? Here's a chart of the genetics:
http://www.harislau.info/welbars

The Welbar is unequivocally a genetically gold rooster (Welsumer) and a genetically silver and barred hen (BPR); Just as the CL starts as a genetically gold rooster (Light Brown Leghorn) and a genetically silver/barred hen - (BPR)--- So roosters lighter than Welsumer in the Welbar, and lighter than the Light Brown Leghorn in the Legbar are showing the results of double barring.

Those that are lighter than the two above images are showing the results of Cream gene diluting the gold...(which some people would say is brown)---- CL differs with crest and blue egg gene...but there is IMO a range of colors for CL - and the silver-white can be the far end of the range...but other roosters are still inside it - according to comparison with the Welbar.

For some - this lightness goes to a very light - almost white look...for others it doesn't. Thanks to Rinda for careful wording and explaining that the 'ideals' are one interpretation of the SOP and that others may interpret it differently. I really appreciate this diplomacy, and the consideration of other alternatives in the breed!

 

[polarbearpilot]

I am looking for some help. I bought some blue cream leg bar eggs to hatch, and I got three chicks from the hatch. Two black and one grey/brown, all have white dot or patch on the heads. I posted their pictures on another CLB forum and was told the black ones are not pure CLB. Can you confirm that? Also, are they all roos? Thanks.

 

[ChicKat]

I am looking for some help. I bought some blue cream leg bar eggs to hatch, and I got three chicks from the hatch. Two black and one grey/brown, all have white dot or patch on the heads. I posted their pictures on another CLB forum and was told the black ones are not pure CLB. Can you confirm that? Also, are they all roos? Thanks.

Amazing - I'm curious about the source of your eggs...did the seller show you pictures of, or did you see the parent birds? The chipmunk striped one with white head dot - has the white head dot--of the Cream Legbar male-- the chipmunk stripes are ideally more diffused on the male- but I would still say male. and CL - the two black chicks - (I'm the one who asked you this in the other forum most likely...any chance that they are BPRs?

cute chicks though.... Or, I guess I should ask.... all hatched from blue eggs? not tinted or brown for the dark chicks?

 

[chicken pickin]

I am looking for some help. I bought some blue cream leg bar eggs to hatch, and I got three chicks from the hatch. Two black and one grey/brown, all have white dot or patch on the heads. I posted their pictures on another CLB forum and was told the black ones are not pure CLB. Can you confirm that? Also, are they all roos? Thanks.

It is very likely they are mixed breeds. Cream Legbars don't come in black. Most likely another rooster got to some of their Cream Legabr hens and they just weren't aware of that. They are most likely male due to the CL hens passing on the barring gene to her sons. But if the Male that mated the CL hens also happened to be barred then it could be either gender. So no way of knowing until they mature a little.

I believe someone else very recently posted pics of black chicks they hatched from supposed blue CL eggs.

 

[polarbearpilot]

Amazing - I'm curious about the source of your eggs...did the seller show you pictures of, or did you see the parent birds? The chipmunk striped one with white head dot - has the white head dot--of the Cream Legbar male-- the chipmunk stripes are ideally more diffused on the male- but I would still say male. and CL - the two black chicks - (I'm the one who asked you this in the other forum most likely...any chance that they are BPRs?

cute chicks though.... Or, I guess I should ask.... all hatched from blue eggs? not tinted or brown for the dark chicks?

It is very likely they are mixed breeds. Cream Legbars don't come in black. Most likely another rooster got to some of their Cream Legabr hens and they just weren't aware of that. They are most likely male due to the CL hens passing on the barring gene to her sons. But if the Male that mated the CL hens also happened to be barred then it could be either gender. So no way of knowing until they mature a little.

I believe someone else very recently posted pics of black chicks they hatched from supposed blue CL eggs.

Thanks ChicKat and chicken pickin. I am new to CLB. I bought the eggs at a local meet-up, and they were all light blue eggs. I didn't see the parents, but the seller assured me that the eggs were pure CLB eggs, not mixed breed. He also had a whole bunch of 'teenage' CLBs and showed me the white spots on the males. Since they weren't chicks, I didn't really know what they were supposed to look like at hatch. As for the black ones, do I wait for crowing to confirm they are males or are there features I should watch for as they grow to know if they are boys? Thanks so much for your help.