Creole Dorkings????

[Kilsharion]

Ok - so I'll post photos later (have them taken; but, in a rush to get out the door)...just wanted to let you know that I'm now 90% certain that there is barred rock in the background of that cuckoo. Dark wash on all my black's legs...and the one that hatched out red has four toes. I have about four more left to hatch. We'll see how they are

Much better results this time, Joy!!

 

[joyous]

Ok - so I'll post photos later (have them taken; but, in a rush to get out the door)...just wanted to let you know that I'm now 90% certain that there is barred rock in the background of that cuckoo. Dark wash on all my black's legs...and the one that hatched out red has four toes. I have about four more left to hatch. We'll see how they are

Much better results this time, Joy!!

Congrats! can't wait to see the pictures!

 

[joyous]

Good news , bad news! I have 3 hens sitting on my project eggs, I have an inci with 20 due in one week and developing nicely....bad news, not one of Dick H. eggs made it. They died between day 7 and 12. I am not sure why, the air cells were large and irregular, maybe just too much rough handling with the post office. So that leaves me with no fresh reds to breed my projects to. I need expert advise here. What to you guys think about breeding cousins, brothers and sisters? My original cross of Cuckoo to reds are totally unrelated. The first cross hens I bred to new reds roosters who may be distantly related to the hens of the first cross....any thoughts?

 

[yinepu]

Good news , bad news! I have 3 hens sitting on my project eggs, I have an inci with 20 due in one week and developing nicely....bad news, not one of Dick H. eggs made it. They died between day 7 and 12. I am not sure why, the air cells were large and irregular, maybe just too much rough handling with the post office. So that leaves me with no fresh reds to breed my projects to. I need expert advise here. What to you guys think about breeding cousins, brothers and sisters? My original cross of Cuckoo to reds are totally unrelated. The first cross hens I bred to new reds roosters who may be distantly related to the hens of the first cross....any thoughts?

sounds like the eggs had a little too much damage

with shipped eggs you will sometimes see where the egg starts to develop.. then the growing tissue hits a damaged area.. since it can't develop beyond that point the embryo dies.



this year I have seen a lot of "infertile" or "scrambled" eggs that don't develop at all that are being shipped to me.. I haven't had the issue of chicks starting to form and then die (though I did have a few of those last year)


as to the people I have had to deal with this year:
I had one woman assure me that her eggs were fertile and that, no she didn't have a rooster.. Her argument was that when she gets shipped eggs in they hatch.. and she doesn't have a rooster.. so there is no need to have one in the flock ...

So she was selling her eggs as "fertile" because in her mind a rooster isn't needed to (as she put it) "run over and fertilize the eggs once they are laid"


Another sent me broken and scrambled eggs with NO padding under the eggs .. stating that the postal service will drop eggs from a height of 6 feet.. so there is no reason in his mind to add extra padding around the eggs... since local people have hatched them out just fine...

I asked him that if he knows how they are treated why not add more padding to the eggs?... his reply was to give me a partial refund and to state again that the locals have no issue hatching out his eggs...
So out of 13 eggs I had 1 develop.........

as for the inbreeding question

you can breed cousin to cousin.. just watch future generations for defects and for fertility issues

cousin to cousin isn't as bad as brother to sister.. with severe inbreeding you can "fix" some traits.. unfortunately when you breed close relations you will also end up fixing bad traits (though it is a good way to see what issues may be recessive in your flock)

with dogs and horses it's pretty common to line breed (mother to son.. father to daughter).. but breeding brother to sister is looked down upon because of the risk of doubling up inferior traits and dealing with the resulting defects

chickens are easier to cull than a "cute little puppy" or a foal for most people.. so if you do feel the need to inbreed with brother to sister just remember you may have to cull heavily at hatch then outcross to a different bloodline at the breeding of the birds you decide to keep


chickens do seem to have a 'failsafe" as to inbreeding.. if a line of birds becomes too inbred many times there will be major fertility issues.. I don't know if you have noticed or not but often times you will hear where a certain line has fertility issues.. to me that's a pretty good warning flag that the flock is getting too inbred and is in need of some serious outcrossing to help resolve the issue.




I did have another batch of your eggs hatch out.. all of mine from you have had 5 toes on each foot too.
I did get a few chipmunks from this batch.. but most of the chicks were blacks or silvers

 

[joyous]

oh my goodness , and I thought I had heard everything! Yes I agree, I think they had too rough handling, and also some fertility problems as many didn't even develop that far. I may email Glenn at Sand hill preservation center to get some more reds, depending on how closely they are related. I could always get some single combs as they may be from another line, then breed back for rose combs. Strict culling is not a problem as we plan to have a freezer full by late fall LOL. I am just getting impatient, as my goal seems closer, I just have to realize that this may take years!

 

[Kilsharion]

Good news , bad news! I have 3 hens sitting on my project eggs, I have an inci with 20 due in one week and developing nicely....bad news, not one of Dick H. eggs made it. They died between day 7 and 12. I am not sure why, the air cells were large and irregular, maybe just too much rough handling with the post office.

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that none of Dick's eggs hatched out!

I can't wait to get home and see what the rest of the little buggers are from your eggs. Lucky has been an absolute peach and I agree with Mike that she's a total keeper just because of her personality if for no other reason. I'm also finding that I love the subtle red bleed through in the black. I think Lucky may wind up being one of my favourite birds.

 

[yinepu]

oh my goodness , and I thought I had heard everything! Yes I agree, I think they had too rough handling, and also some fertility problems as many didn't even develop that far. I may email Glenn at Sand hill preservation center to get some more reds, depending on how closely they are related. I could always get some single combs as they may be from another line, then breed back for rose combs. Strict culling is not a problem as we plan to have a freezer full by late fall LOL. I am just getting impatient, as my goal seems closer, I just have to realize that this may take years!

I have a few "odd" looking chicks from a previous hatch.. hopefully tomorrow I can post pics of them and see what you think

 

[joyous]

I would be very interested in seeing your pictures! There is a slight possibility I could have accidentally put an icelandic egg in as I collect my eggs at the same time, but they are much smaller and only have 4 toes. There is absolutely no possibility of interbreeding though as I keep the two breeds completely separated at all times and they never free range together! I am going to email glenn drowns at sand hill preservation center where I got my Dorkings to make sure of the history. Glenn is a science teacher who has studied genetics for 30 years so I know he will be straight with me. Meanwhile I have lots of chicks due over the next two weeks so I will post pictures and compare!

 

[joyous]

I just got a message from new york with my eggs and a hatch of 13 out of 14 eggs! Healthy with several chipmunks! Bad news is she got four with only 4 toes and four with 4 /5 toes. This leads me to believe there must be some other breed in the Dorkings background like kilsharon said! I thought at first I could have gotten some of my other eggs mixed in, but I am absolutely positive that my Dorkings were not exposed to any other breed on my place! I keep them completely separate so the only other answer is from where I got my birds! I will get to the bottom of this and let you all know!

 

[joyous]

Very discouraged tonight! I have worked so hard on this project! If the birds have some other genes tucked away in their lineage I will stop this project immediately. If there is some other genetic explanation for the odd toe and leg wash I may reconsider. I am so sorry if I let any of you that have become my friends down, I truly love this breed and was attempting to recreate the crele coloring/pattern that I saw on feather site and believe is part of the history of these unique and wonderful birds! Will let you know what I find out, and definitely won't be selling any more eggs until I have some better answers.