CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[Wynette]

Ginny has asked me to comment on this male as he is descended from a hen she hatched from eggs I sold her several years ago, so here I go. (Note, this is being done on only one cup of coffee, so if I miss something, don't string me up please.)

Visually I like this cock bird a good deal. His color is quite nice, with no speckling or bleeding through in the body or the hackles. I believe she said he had good slate bar, always a good thing. I like that his tail has retained a good green gloss, some birds trend towards maroon, which is less than optimal. His legs seem a little short, but that's not a huge problem, given his breadth. I like his front especially, he's nice and broad in the chest, which is a very good thing. His wing carriage seems correct, although Ginny did say he's got some odd thing happening with the feathers there, not sure what that's about. I guess I'd see if he threw that in his offspring, and if he did, I might take him out of the breeding program if so, as that might be a twisted feather sort of issue.

His weight is low, he should weigh 9 pounds. So that's a problem. If he were pen bred to large hens, and the offspring were bigger, that would fix that issue.

His comb is a little large, but believe me, getting a perfect pea comb is HARD! His wattles seem correct, as does his eye color from what I can see. All in all I would probably keep this bird in my breeding program if I had large/heavy hens to breed him to, and if he felt right when I evaluated him using the ALBC charts (I hate doing photo evals, but this is the best I can do here.)

Hope this helps.

Thank you for this very thorough explanation - LOVE IT! I especially like that you provided your description of what you feel a good mate would be for this male in order to move the breed pen forward. Although this is not one of my breeds, it's ALWAYS helpful to read feedback that is so thorough such as yours!

 

[buffalogal]

How many birds do most of you hatch in order to get, say, 5 good breeders for the next year?

Do you mean males or females? I go through approx. 50 to 75 birds when selecting a male, about half that many looking for females.

 

[vmdanielsen]

Do you mean males or females? I go through approx. 50 to 75 birds when selecting a male, about half that many looking for females.

I mean total. I have been hesitant about breeding too many fearing I would wind up not culling and eating so for the first 2 years I did not hatch many. My family eats them willingly so this year I am hatching more. Thank you.

I am on my way out to a judging weekend, but before I leave I will say this. Your birds look very good overall, the only concern I would have is the size of the males.

Walt

So, I should keep bigger hens to increase the overall size of my individuals? Thank you. Have a good weekend.

As far as inbreeding crosses, the most important thing is to cull, cull, cull. For breeding, keep only excellent birds with no serious faults in conformation and temperament. Inbreeding does increase the possibility of fixing bad traits, so removing all of those birds is an important part of the process.

I agree, but I am still in the "start with what you have" phase. So all comments are welcome. I am happy to learn from other's experiences/experiments! Thank you.

What do you get when you breed Hanks descendants to Johnny? I like them both for different reasons. I would think 150 chicks might get you three great birds.

The first batch is about 2 weeks old and the second is in the incuabtors now. Time will tell. Thank you.It

Ginny has asked me to comment on this male as he is descended from a hen she hatched from eggs I sold her several years ago, so here I go. (Note, this is being done on only one cup of coffee, so if I miss something, don't string me up please.)

Visually I like this cock bird a good deal. His color is quite nice, with no speckling or bleeding through in the body or the hackles. I believe she said he had good slate bar, always a good thing. I like that his tail has retained a good green gloss, some birds trend towards maroon, which is less than optimal. His legs seem a little short, but that's not a huge problem, given his breadth. I like his front especially, he's nice and broad in the chest, which is a very good thing. His wing carriage seems correct, although Ginny did say he's got some odd thing happening with the feathers there, not sure what that's about. I guess I'd see if he threw that in his offspring, and if he did, I might take him out of the breeding program if so, as that might be a twisted feather sort of issue.

His weight is low, he should weigh 9 pounds. So that's a problem. If he were pen bred to large hens, and the offspring were bigger, that would fix that issue.

His comb is a little large, but believe me, getting a perfect pea comb is HARD! His wattles seem correct, as does his eye color from what I can see. All in all I would probably keep this bird in my breeding program if I had large/heavy hens to breed him to, and if he felt right when I evaluated him using the ALBC charts (I hate doing photo evals, but this is the best I can do here.)

Hope this helps.

It does. Thank you for all your encouraging words.

Ginny

 

[Lacy Blues]

Lacy, thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated.

I have no objection breeding him back to his get( this term is used in horse breeding, is is applicable with fowl as well?). When one keeps breeding back to the same sire, one can also breed back the faults and lessen the gene pool. How many times would (should, can?) breed back to a good bird? I could use him for a late hatch. When does a rooster's virility lessen to the point where fertility is an issue?

This bird is stocky and as I stated, fathered great roasters, but is he too stocky to be considered a well shaped buckeye? While I do eat my culls, I do want to maintain breeding fowl as close to the standard as I can.

I am still working on better hens. This seems harder to do, maybe because Ineed more of them and if I was holding them to a higher standard I would have too few for breeding next year.

I will say that because of this thread, I have decided to keep a hen that has no "cushion". She does however have a funky eye color(tannish). Most of my hens do have a cushion.

How many birds do most of you hatch in order to get, say, 5 good breeders for the next year?

I would definitely keep that hen. Eye color is only a few points and like you said, you're starting with what you have. It will be a work in progress.

I don't have a set number to try and hatch. Just hatch as many as you can and while they're growing up, study your Standard of Perfection. Then go outside with it and start separating into a "cull" pen. Grow them up as long as you're able to afford the feed and keep your eyes open for late bloomers.

 

[FlashPointFarm]

I would definitely keep that hen. Eye color is only a few points and like you said, you're starting with what you have. It will be a work in progress.

I don't have a set number to try and hatch. Just hatch as many as you can and while they're growing up, study your Standard of Perfection. Then go outside with it and start separating into a "cull" pen. Grow them up as long as you're able to afford the feed and keep your eyes open for late bloomers.

I agree. Hatch and raise up as many as you can afford to feed and house. Be careful not to cull too early unless you find serious faults. It's not uncommon for exhibition to raise upwards of 100 per year just to get a trio.

 

[BGMatt]

I would definitely keep that hen. Eye color is only a few points and like you said, you're starting with what you have. It will be a work in progress.

I don't have a set number to try and hatch. Just hatch as many as you can and while they're growing up, study your Standard of Perfection. Then go outside with it and start separating into a "cull" pen. Grow them up as long as you're able to afford the feed and keep your eyes open for late bloomers.

I also agree with this not having a set number. it depends on how fast you want to improve. You can hatch low numbers and as long as you're producing better stock than the parents you will slowly improve. If you hatch large numbers and keep very few you will improve faster. There is no maintaining, you're either improving or backsliding. When newcomers ask me I generally tell them around 5% is a good number to shoot for if you must put a number on it. So 1 out of 20, 5 out of 100.

If you're interested in showing, I like keeping a separate show flock and breeding flock (well, different birds anyway) if I have the space, I will be more lenient maybe 10-20% on birds that I keep for show, and they're sold later if there's interest.

Edit: I forgot to add, and this is probably something that I'm doing wrong, but the more I hatch, the lower percentage I'll keep. Like on a breed I hatch 50 of I'll keep 5 or so, but another breed if I hatch 300 I'll keep 3...no idea why, just going over old records this morning and noticed that trend.

 

[vmdanielsen]

Because of your insightful comments, I am changing plans. I am going to take MR.Puny out of the breeding pens and put grandpa Hank back in. I will put Hank's get with Johnny and Hank will get the others. A friend is taking the batch currently incubating with the deal I get up to 4 birds of my choosing back, then he can do as he will with the rest(there are 53 eggs in the incubators, I just pulled the clears). I have 36 chicks in the brooder. Hopefully, the third hatch will yield another 40. Out of that many chickens, I should get a few, better than what I have.

As a side note, Laura, the incubator that has eggs from Johnny(your bird's gene pool) out of 33 eggs there were no clears and 2 questionable quitters. That's virility!!

I have 2 incubators and have only been separating and banding birds per sire not hens. I can trap nest in one pen. How does one keep track during hatching who is whom??

Here's to breeding better buckeyes!!! Thanks folks.

 

[FlashPointFarm]

Because of your insightful comments, I am changing plans. I am going to take MR.Puny out of the breeding pens and put grandpa Hank back in. I will put Hank's get with Johnny and Hank will get the others. A friend is taking the batch currently incubating with the deal I get up to 4 birds of my choosing back, then he can do as he will with the rest(there are 53 eggs in the incubators, I just pulled the clears). I have 36 chicks in the brooder. Hopefully, the third hatch will yield another 40. Out of that many chickens, I should get a few, better than what I have.

As a side note, Laura, the incubator that has eggs from Johnny(your bird's gene pool) out of 33 eggs there were no clears and 2 questionable quitters. That's virility!!

I have 2 incubators and have only been separating and banding birds per sire not hens. I can trap nest in one pen. How does one keep track during hatching who is whom??

Here's to breeding better buckeyes!!! Thanks folks.

As far as keeping track of progeny, you can toe punch chicks. I also use color code with colored zip ties. If you google a toe punch chart, there are many out there. Smith Poultry Supply has the best prices on toe punches and bands that I've found so far.

 

[vmdanielsen]

As far as keeping track of progeny, you can toe punch chicks. I also use color code with colored zip ties. If you google a toe punch chart, there are many out there. Smith Poultry Supply has the best prices on toe punches and bands that I've found so far.

I have been banding them.I did purchase a toe punch and do intend to use it. I was unclear in question, sorry. What I meant was how does one keep separate , hatching chicks, as they hatch? Once they hatch I no longer know who everybody is just who the sire is because I keep them in separate incubators.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Some folks use a hatching sack, similar to an orange sack or onion sack.