CSU - Chicken State University- Large Fowl SOP

[3riverschick]

Quote: Hi Hughes Fowl Farm,
Just a note to let you know, on one is putting you off. It's just that the SOP is such an excellent book,
so refined in nature of its education, it's just simply the very best answer to your questions.
I spent months looking for information on my breed Then I bought the SOP. So many answers to my frustrated questions.
Plus, reading it will give you the information you need to make pointed questions more clear in their terminology.
Least I found it so, as poultry lingo is way different from mammal breeding. That makes it easier for the experts
to answer you most thoroughly. I really look forward to your future questions. We all learn so much from each
other's questions. and the subsequent answers. I found the pics of your waterfowl on the West TN thread.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/630381/west-tennessee-thread
Great looking birds! Mallards are my fav duck breed. My brother had one when a teen , called him Dick. Dick the Duck.
Fun bird, except the day he decided to go swimming in the pool and pooped in it. Boy was Dad upset he had
to chemical shock the pool because of Dick! Do you know the breeds of your chickens? We have some other
TN folk here on this thread.
Best Regards,
Karen
Waterford English Light Sussex
in western PA, USA

 

[faykokoWV]

I think the hen in the second picture looks better than the one in the first picture as far as the American SOP. The "best hen's" neck is shorter and stockier than the image in the SOP. The first hen is also carrying her tail higher than the 50 Degrees stated in the SOP. the lacing is beautiful!

the first hen almost looks like a cornish cross? A little meatier, and stocky.

I personally like the high tail carriage, and was surprised when I read the SOP and saw it was lower than I thought it should be. Most examples I see have a tail angle much higher than 50 degrees. Is this a Dutch/ English vs American standard thing? Your first hen (the squat one lol) looks exactly like the British Barnevelder SOP images I have seen.

 

[tls_ranch]

I think the hen in the second picture looks better than the one in the first picture as far as the American SOP.  The "best hen's" neck is shorter and stockier than the image in the SOP.  The first hen is also carrying her tail higher than the 50 Degrees stated in the SOP.   the lacing is beautiful!

the first hen almost looks like a cornish cross?  A little meatier, and stocky. 

I personally like the high tail carriage, and was surprised when I read the SOP and  saw it was lower than I thought it should be.  Most examples I see have a tail angle much higher than 50 degrees.  Is this a Dutch/ English vs American standard thing?  Your first hen (the squat one lol) looks exactly like the British Barnevelder SOP images I have seen.

The first hen does not look like a dark Cornish cross to me. Yes, the hen's legs look short, but she is no where close in body type to a cross. Cornish blood makes a bird tend to have a longer flat back, closer feathering and a pinched/ Cornish like tail.

It is hard to evaluate a bird from one photo. The hen may look better if viewed directly from the side( not turned away like in the photo). Her neck might be longer in person too. I can take 10 pictures of the same bird and the tail angle and body can look different in each. It is so hard to tell from photos. To me she looks more like one of the hens on the Dutch Barnevelder club page.

Trisha

Edited to add: I have been working with a project line with Cornish blood for several years. I haven't edited this page in over 2 years, but it will show what happens when barnevelders are out crossed to dark Cornish. I am now much farther ahead and type has improved greatly as I am nearing the 7 th and. 8 th generation since the cross. The Egg color is still the best I have in my flock.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/project-2

 

[faykokoWV]

thanks for clearing that up on the cornish shape-



I do agree - one picture does not really show what a bird looks like!

 

[tls_ranch]

I wanted to add that I don't advise anyone to out cross barnevelders to dark Cornish unless you just want a meat bird. It takes years, generations and the culling of many, many birds to get back type. I only kept up with the project because the extremely lucky " recombination " of genes caused a handful of offspring to have dark egg color. Oddly far darker than either of the parent lines.

Trisha

 

[Happy Chooks]

Okay, I screwed up.

This picture that I posted above is not a full barnevelder - she is a black pullet from a blue mating. One of Trisha's project blues, 6th generation crossed back to pure barnevelder. I got to thinking last night after some comments here and privately, and wondered if I grabbed the wrong picture. I even had this picture labeled "black from blue mating". So DUH on me - that is what I get for being in a hurry. She's not a good layer, so she probably won't be staying.



THIS is the daughter of the hen I posted before. She was my best hen, cleaner lacing than her mother. This is her when she was a pullet. She was 9 months old here, she didn't start laying until she was 11 months old. She laid for a few months, then went broody.



Sorry for any confusion here. I have since started using leg bands to identify my birds. I will go fix the post above.

 

[EweSheep]

I'm impressed with your Barnies!

I sure do like the one with the cage background. I know her topline was a bit like a U but still beautiful lacing.

Do they carry triple lacing? I've heard of double lacings on Barnvelders but not triple lacings.

Does anyone know about the origin of the imported USA Barnies? Are they mostly from one source (one breeder)? Was it British, German or Dutch?

I am sure someone can distinguish the differences in the Barnvelders (like they did for the Welsummers).


Such interesting breed! NO! I am not interested in getting some but I sure love to read up on them!

 

[tls_ranch]

I'm impressed with your Barnies! 

I sure do like the one with the cage background. I know her topline was a bit like a U but still beautiful lacing.

Do they carry triple lacing? I've heard of double lacings on Barnvelders but not triple lacings.

Does anyone know about the origin of the imported USA Barnies? Are they mostly from one source (one breeder)? Was it British, German or Dutch?

I am sure someone can distinguish the differences in the Barnvelders (like they did for the Welsummers).


Such interesting breed! NO! I am not interested in getting some but I sure love to read up on them!

The Barnevelder is still pretty rare in the USA. The Barnevelder is quite popular in its home country and overseas and 2013 is said to be "The Year of the Barnevelder "

From what has been said, the original US barnevelders came from several sources of Dutch, British and German. Johan barnevelders are Dutch imports. Erhard Weihs has some barnevelders said to be of german lines originating from Horst Greczmiel. Some Hatchery lines have been known to be crossed with welsummers. There may be others because there are some rumors/ stories of eggs shipped from overseas.

Barnevelders are said to be a medium sized, dual purpose breed. Cocks are to weigh around 7 pounds, but some countries accept up to 3.5 Kg ( so that is closer to 8 pounds). Hens are to weigh around 6 pounds. From most descriptions the back is to be concave, with a uniform curve flowing from neck to tail. The back is supposed to be medium length, broad and the dutch say without a cushion. The tail should be full and carried high up to 50 degrees. According to the Dutch, the tail should be of medium length and the top of the tail to stay below the lower part of the head.

Barnevelders have fairly long necks and proud head carriage. It sometimes is hard to evaluate a bird by pictures because when alert and excited the higher tail set, curved, concave back, long neck and high set head all can be exaggerated.

Triple lacing is not preferred and single lacing is considered poor quality. I have had some hens with triple lacing towards the tail, but not on the breast.
In the double laced color, the Dutch prefer solid black breasted males. The Germans want some lacing on males breasts, but probably have Mahogany in their birds. The British and Australians want breast lacing in males. The US SOP calls for males with breast lacing. I personally decided to follow the Dutch standard as that is what has been working best for my flock and follows the country of origin. So, my males will not completely match the US standard for the breast color.

It is hard to discuss the SOP on a public forum, so I tried avoid posting exact details.


Trisha

 

[Apdeb]

This is one of my 3 month old roosters born 5/19/13

 

[Happy Chooks]

This is one of my 3 month old roosters born 5/19/13

Is he blue? The picture on the left, he looks dark blue. Could be the lighting though.