CSU's Welsummer SOP

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

I'd love to have a critique on this young girl - she is approximately 5-6 months old - not knowing what I'm really supposed to be looking for, this is very much an important learning experience for me.

A bit too early to tell what that comb will look like when she is a fully grown hen, but it doesn't look too bad when looking at it in a profile. Her eye color is quite wrong, though (even if that would mean a small point cut in the APA's SOP). However, the former secretary in the British Welsummer Club once stated to me, "The greener the eye, the darker the egg."

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

By the way, my experience has been that the cockbird is very important as concerns the comb of the offspring. Most of the birds descended from our original UK import produced roosters with too large a comb, twist and thumb mark, and the comb going too far out on the beak. Lowell and I also acquired a pair of cockerels from a breeder in Oregon (who does not want to be identified), also of British origin. They had superior combs and super colors (including eyes), and the pullets resulting from them also laid a large, dark egg. I lost that line to predators, but Lowell still had some of them at the time of his passing. The wrong eye color was a challenge from the very start as concerns the birds (i.e., eggs) we originally got from the UK. The ones from British Columbia (German origins) were better in regards to both combs and eye color, whereas their plumage patterns/color (especially the cocks) and type were quite at variance with what we decided to go for. I cannot recall if Erhard's birds (also of German origin) had these characteristics.

 

[faykokoWV]

By the way, my experience has been that the cockbird is very important as concerns the comb of the offspring. Most of the birds descended from our original UK import produced roosters with too large a comb, twist and thumb mark, and the comb going too far out on the beak. Lowell and I also acquired a pair of cockerels from a breeder in Oregon (who does not want to be identified), also of British origin. They had superior combs and super colors (including eyes), and the pullets resulting from them also laid a large, dark egg. I lost that line to predators, but Lowell still had some of them at the time of his passing. The wrong eye color was a challenge from the very start as concerns the birds (i.e., eggs) we originally got from the UK. The ones from British Columbia (German origins) were better in regards to both combs and eye color, whereas their plumage patterns/color (especially the cocks) and type were quite at variance with what we decided to go for. I cannot recall if Erhard's birds (also of German origin) had these characteristics.

I was just commenting to someone - I almost think we might be wise to get a group together to invest on importing fresh lines.

 

[EweSheep]

please do not be sorry. We need harsh and fair assessments. One of the issues is the overall poor quality of birds available. Combs are kind of on the bottom of my list when there is so much else to be worked on. I hate saying that, but it seems to be the case with birds in the US. The breed has been neglected. We tried very hard to find one good representative to use for the breeders club logo and nobody had one. Its rather frustrating.

That's one of the reasons I was so glad that this thread was started though. Every breeder I asked told me to leave the comb as the bottom of the list for selection criteria. Which has bothered be, because it is one of the first things people notice about a bird

Yes, it is refreshing to take a very HARSH look at our birds and see if we can work with it, or cull them out. We get folks saying combs are the last because they don't judge harshly like the conformation of the bird. The breeders would say combs are workable and select only the best. I agree the breed was neglected and we still got a ways to go.

 

[EweSheep]

I was just commenting to someone - I almost think we might be wise to get a group together to invest on importing fresh lines.

I agree, it is very frustrating to get some NEW imported lines of LF Welsummers. The Dutch bantams looked quite very nice and I do love their combs, very evenly serrated.

The only thing closest to importation, would be getting some of Piet's Dutch Welsummers. Not sure what paperwork required.

 

[EweSheep]

What does the roo is responsible for? Trait wise? I now know he is responsible for combs. How about eye color? Depth of skull? We don't want combs to get too large that they would twist or creep into the top of their nostrils. We WANT smaller combs and wattles.

 

[Eissens]

Quote:
She has a beautiful comb. I like her combheel (the end of the comb), because there are no points on it and it doesn't look thick (that is a problem in the Netherlands) Indeed her eye colour isn't good at this moment, but she is young and maybe the correct eye colour will come soon. But "keep an eye on her eyes", because I don't think it will be the best redish orange colour. I never heard about "The greener the eye, the darker the egg." Green isn't the correct colour, so I do not understand why they didn't cull them. Only to see what kind of eggs they produces? That sound strange to me. But I have read in an article from an old Dutch commercial Welsumer breeder that some hens have a little bit black/brown striping in their redish orange eyes. And those ones are the best brown egg layers.

 

[Eissens]

Breeding is al about combine and select, I can't repeat this often enough!
For example: When your hens have poor eye colour , than you have to look for a cockerel with excellent eye colour (visa versa)
The hen has to offset the bad quallities of the cockerel and the cockerel has to offset the bad quallities of the hen.
Later you must select hard in the progeny on this bad quallities.

 

[faykokoWV]

Breeding is al about combine and select, I can't repeat this often enough! For example: When your hens have poor eye colour , than you have to look for a cockerel with excellent eye colour (visa versa) The hen has to offset the bad quallities of the cockerel and the cockerel has to offset the bad quallities of the hen. Later you must select hard in the progeny on this bad quallities.

our problem is finding a good quality bird to improve the flock - there just aren't that many around. I was interested - Dr Netland, did I read that some of the original stock brought to the USA had issue with comb and eye?

Am I understanding the history of the breed in the US correctly - there were only 3 original flocks in the US and everything has basically been bred from those three flocks?

 

[LisaBeth]

Okay...then should I presume - if we are having problems with combs here in the US and...should this girls comb mature as well as it looks at this point AND should she have more good points than bad, that I should perhaps consider keeping her for breeding with a cockeral that will offset the incorrect eye color and any other sticking points? And then cull the offspring hoping to get the good from both the cockeral and the hen in a few?