CSU's Welsummer SOP

[EweSheep]

Most definitely, so thank you Marcel for your input here.

Thank you and definately a valuable resource!

 

[EweSheep]

If no one want to contribute, we can move on to the next part of the body.....should we go for the midsection, the body...the back, chest, wings?

Or wait another week?

 

[Happy Chooks]

If no one want to contribute, we can move on to the next part of the body.....should we go for the midsection, the body...the back, chest, wings?

Or wait another week?

I vote for wait another week. I was hoping to put up some pictures, but haven't had a chance yet.

 

[Eissens]

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At this moment we only concentrating on the head, so the sickle feathers, primary flights, stubs etc. will be discussed later. Discussing the various parts is exactly how we in the Netherlands judge our birds. Everything the judge say about the bird is written on a card. A predicate is given at each part. Indeed, the comb of this UK utility Welsumer is too large (but it is not beefy), a little bit overgrown front part and the wattles are too large and have some folds. Because you people are talking about "lines", this cockerel is from the "Frank Clark line". Unfortunately the bird and Frank are no longer with us.

 

[Eissens]

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And will we formulate a conclusion after discussing each part?

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

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Splendid idea! And then perhaps the report might be forwarded to the SOP Revision Committee with specific recommendations, and also to all, absolutely all, APA licensed judges and make it REQUIRED reading before they are ever again allowed to judge the breed...? I am very serious about the suggestion about judges, for I have seen some outrageous placements of birds over the years and have also heard some horrendous statements...

 

[EweSheep]

Splendid idea! And then perhaps the report might be forwarded to the SOP Revision Committee with specific recommendations, and also to all, absolutely all, APA licensed judges and make it REQUIRED reading before they are ever again allowed to judge the breed...? I am very serious about the suggestion about judges, for I have seen some outrageous placements of birds over the years and have also heard some horrendous statements...

I would LOVE to hear about those statements and learn from it.

Great idea, Marcel!

 

[Eissens]

Okay, but who makes the conclusions?
Someone from the board of the WCNA or someone from the APA Standard Committee?

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Okay, but who makes the conclusions?
Someone from the board of the WCNA or someone from the APA Standard Committee?

I believe it would be the APA Standard Revision Committee people, and the folks on that committee will probably listen to people with a great deal of influence (the VIPs) in the organization, which means that they may not necessarily reflect the position of the quality breeders. Then again, I might be wrong, and they'll proceed only after having received input from people who really have experience with and knowledge of the breed and its history. One thing that concerns me is that people (mostly in Canada, I think) may want to weigh in to promote a revision in keeping with the German standard, which I think would be very unfortunate. The German Welsummer type is a nice enough bird, but it looks quite different from the Dutch, British, and American type(s) and would necessitate the import of new birds, which would add complications to an issue that is already confusing enough. The current APA standard calls for a tail angle of 60 degrees for the large fowl and 50 degrees for the bantam. What I have seen of the German type suggests a much, much lower tail angle, almost as low as a New Hampshire; and then there is the difference in color and markings, especially in the cockbird.
The main concern I have, though, is that we may end up with a bird whose only redeeming value is conformation (show appearance) at the expense of its utility merits: relatively good layer of large, dark eggs. This concern has sometimes put me at odds with people who breeds primarily exhibition quality stock, but I still insist that the utility aspect of the bird is very important; failing to address that trait, we might end up in a situation similar to what many (if not all) of the breeders of exhibition quality Single Comb White Leghorns find themselves in: gorgeous show quality birds without any of the production traits that made the White Leghorn famous in the first place. In sum. I want to keep my cake and eat it too...a combination type of utility (nuthoen) and show bird, even if the development in other countries has been for two different strains.
As this discussion proceeds, I sincerely hope that Marcel continues to offer his perspective and input. But, Marcel, I much prefer the terra-cotta reddish brown large eggs I am getting to the typical eggs of the Dutch Welsummers...LOL.
It's a wonderful world, especially when we're all allowed to share our views and air our likes and dislikes without getting on the war path...

 

[Eissens]

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I also prefer a bird which have the two distinctions pooled (utility and exhibition) Only in the UK there are the two different distinctions. In the Netherlands there is only one distinction. (except that I am the only one with some utility Welsumers, but that doesn't count) But I must say most UK exhibition Welsumers lay a nice terra cotta reddish egg. This year I imported some UK exhibition Welsumer eggs and those eggs where nice. Some UK utility Welsumer strains lay a very, very dark egg and in my opinion they are not terra cotta reddish anymore (sometimes they look like a Marans egg)