Cubalaya Thread For Sharing Pics and Discussing Our Birds

[cubalaya]

felix,
http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/orchardpoultryfarm/index.html
doc,
i probably will get rid of my delawares and concentrate on cubalayas only. i may keep a couple of delaware hens for the huge brown eggs they lay but this will give me another pen to works with.

 

[bruceha2000]

For this method to work you must start with the absolute best 2 birds that money can buy or will be given you.
(In this example I will specifically use the Cubalaya since that is the bird in question).

Given: Best BBR Cubalaya Cock
Best Other Breed Hen (let's use a Thai since that was what I suggested earlier: though remember I have never done so myself)

1. Breed the Cubalaya cock to the Best Thai hen
2. It is not necessary to hatch a whole lot of chicks that first year, but you need to hatch enough to get several breeding pairs. Let's say you hatch enough to get 5 breeding pairs (10 birds).
Now comes the work:
3. Take the 5 breeding pairs and set them up in pens. Remember these are all brother x sister matings.
4. Hatch as many chicks as possible from each mating. (Discard the breeders each year).
5. From all the chicks hatched (5 pairs @ 20 chicks each = 100 chicks: more would even be better) select the 'most Cubalaya like' and set up breed pens with 5 breeding pairs (10 birds). [Remember these pairs are all cousins and brothers and sisters].
6. Do it all over again as above steps 3-5.

In very short order, with good selection (Health, Vigor, Type, Color), you will have your own strain of excellent Cubalayas that are top-notched show winners. They will continue to come like cookie-cutters (which is what you want). After 3 or 4 generations from the first breeding just set them up on something like the Rolling Mating System.

If you have done your job of selection well then this line can continue many many years with no introduction of new blood.

OK, as a non breeder, I am TOTALLY CONFUSED.

How do you start with a Cubalaya cock and a Thai hen, breed resulting brother to sister, cousin to cousin and end up with a chicken you can really call a Cubalaya? None of them is more than half Cubalaya.

I would have thought (and apparently VERY wrongly from this and other threads) that one would need to stick to the original breeds that were crossed to create a breed to continue to call it the SAME breed. I understand it will take a lot longer to influence a particular trait this way, rather than tossing in something unrelated but "similar". I also understand that all modern chickens are the result of crossing other breeds which were the result of crossing other breeds, etc, etc, etc.

Is this a case of "If it walks like a Cubalaya and squawks like a Cubalaya, it IS a Cubalaya"??

Bruce

 

[gallorojo]

Is this a case of "If it walks like a Cubalaya and squawks like a Cubalaya, it IS a Cubalaya"??

Bruce


Poultry is standard bred, not pedigreed , so, yes, if it matches the standard it is that breed. Ideally you would want them to also consistently breed true to type, but, if you follow the system given by Saladin, you will arrive at that on the end. Realistically, if it matches the standard, and you started with the breed in the first place, when you are finished it will end up being mostly the blood of the original breed, plus whatever you wanted to add from the outcross breed. Poultry breeding is not like dog breeding.

 

[fowlsessed]

"Is this a case of "If it walks like a Cubalaya and squawks like a Cubalaya, it IS a Cubalaya"??

Bruce"

.........so, yes, if it matches the standard it is that breed.

I've often wondered about the same point Bruce brought up, but that's a good definition, Gallo. I like it, and more importantly, it's true.

 

[Jungleexplorer]

Here are my thoughts on this matter. Just about every breed of animal on earth is a mix of other animals of the same kind. Almost every domestic breed of dog, cat, cow and horse etc, etc, etc, were engineered by man at some point by mixing other animals of the same kind to produce certain traits that the breeder desired. Once the traits the breeder wanted were achieved, the breeder kept that set of genes pure so he could faithfully reproduce the desired traits in the offspring. Some breeds of dogs, for example, were developed hundreds of years ago, while other were developed in the last few decades. I believe, when it comes to the standards of pedigrees or breeds, the only difference between some kinds of animals (like dogs) and other kinds of animals (like chickens), is just how man has chosen to classify them. A pit bull dog is just a mixture of different types of canines and a cubalaya is a mixture of different types of avians. The difference is, if you can prove it's ancestry, you can go down and get a Pitbull AKC registered, but a Cubalaya you cannot.

To the best of my understanding so far, I think a chicken is judged to be of a certain breed, not by it's ancestry, but by the conformity of it's physical appearance to a set standards set forth by a committee of people that decided (at some point) what the perfect representation of each chicken breed should look like. I am in no way an expert or even a beginner, but it is my understanding that it really does not matter how you get there, as long as you get there. It's the "how to get there" that takes the real knowledge and understanding, of which I am totally devoid at the moment (but I am learning, thanks to the kind and knowledgable people on this forum.)

 

[bruceha2000]

Thank you all. Very informative. While I still have to wrap my head around the concept of "as long as it looks right" I can understand it

My first mistake (or, more accurately, ignorance) was ASSUMING that chickens were like other animals when it came to being "pure bred". One would, again, ASSUME, that there would have to be some expectation of getting the same "breed" if you mate 2 birds of the same breed.

Maybe that is why the hatchery birds can vary a lot from the SOP. Could be they have a bunch of hens and cocks that "look right" but who knows what sports will pop out.

The Ameraucana people better not come read this thread!

Bruce

 

[cubakid]

Even for Ameraucanas, they are young as compared to other breeds. They were also bred differently in each strain during development. Each person had a different opinion on how to get to the perfect specimen.

Cubalayas are a mix of many different Oriental fowl. As far as I know, Doc may know, there isn't a set list of breeds used during development. The cubalaya could likely have different lines containing different breeds in thier background that were used to create them. This could explain why some lines may not mix well. Or why some lines could be naturally bigger.

 

[4hmom]

i agree with cubakid and the catigories that i heard the breeds were selected from were european duel purpose fowl, european game birds, and mostly oriental game.

 

[wood&feathers]

Now for something I have heard nothing about - "China Games". They bear a superficial resemblance to cubalayas - white legs, low tail, pea comb - and I have never heard them mentioned in this thread. What are they and did they have a place in the creation of cubalayas?

 

[gallorojo]

They have no place in the original creation of the Cubas. They don't all have white legs and pea combs either. There is a lot of info out there about them, maybe later I can paste a link or some more info.