Cubalaya Thread For Sharing Pics and Discussing Our Birds

[adubsroit]

So these black markings, any idea as to what is causing it?? I'm not saying it is the end all be all answer, but recessive wheaten seems logical. I have read that the gene is really similar to regular wheaten but under different circumstances act differently depending on what is present.

 

[Cuban Longtails]

The trouble is that the genetics behind the Cubalaya plumage color has not been directly studied as other breeds have. It is not the same as seen in Old English, and it's not really found in oriental games either (although they are the closest). We have only the experience of current and past breeders to gleen knowledge from.

I believe the black needs to be there or you start losing the vibrant cinnamon red coloring in the females and the hackles of the males lose the fire (red to golden red) coloration in their hackles.

 

[adubsroit]

Makes sense, sort of like how lavender needs black. I just wonder if there is a way to control the few leaks. Off to the 2011 Northwest National Poultry Show and APA Semi-Annual Meet in Stevenson, WA. Just showing a Buckeye cockerel (from Urch lines), a Buff Chantecler cockerel and a Beltsville White [jake] turkey. I will be sure to snap some pictures of any Cubalayas there - the boyfriend and I already have to take a bunch for turkeys (he is the director of District 9 for Turkey Fanciers).

 

[Cuban Longtails]

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If you can catch him, talk to Sam Brush about the black ticking in cubalaya hens.

Good luck with your entries!

 

[gallorojo]

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Here are some spur pics for you.

Multiple spur cockerel.

Single spur old cock-I like the scales on the old guy!!

 

[saladin]

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I tend to be in agreement here with CL. The coloration of a Cubalaya is not the same as other Orientals (in the male) nor is it the same as the OEG (in the females) for Wheaten. It may be Wheaten plus something else I just do not know. I'm not sure that knowing would make one bit of difference either.

Back in my University days I use to make extra money by tutoring folks in Algebra. I was an Algebra wiz back then..... not bad for a fellow that majored in Theology and minored in Herbrew and Greek! Anyway, the reason I was so successful in Algebra goes back to one of my Jr High teachers. He said when introducing Algebra: 'Never ask WHY. Just take these things as TRUTH and you'll do just fine. But, if you ever decide to ask WHY then you are messed up.' Every individual I tutored in University that had problems in Algebra, I found had usually asked, 'Why?'

Here's what I've learned thru experience and listening:

1. If you want to keep a good Cubalaya BBR cock (will use the Standard wording) black in the black areas then you need a female that shows 'smut;' otherwise, the red will begin to show in the black areas (like the breast).

2. If you want a high colored Cubalaya BBR cock then you need to utilize a female that shows some white in the wings and possibly in the tail.

3. If you want a good Cubalaya White cock with no red in him anywhere then you need to cross your whites onto blues or blacks; then, choose the dirty looking chicks that turn white. These will be white white when fully grown. If you use the white chicks the adult male birds will show red.

Many of the females I see today show a breast that is way to light in color for a Cubalaya. This shows an outcross to a Shamo or some other Oriental bird to get size back up in a Cubalaya. Not a bad outcross at all, but selection needs to be careful. Cubalaya hens are nearly burnt brick red and that includes the breast! Just be careful in your culling and selection process if making and outcross; otherwise you'll run into other problems down the road.

Of all the birds I would be willing to make an outcross too there is only ONE that I would NEVER use: I WOULD NEVER USE A SUMATRA.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[adubsroit]

Quote:
I tend to be in agreement here with CL. The coloration of a Cubalaya is not the same as other Orientals (in the male) nor is it the same as the OEG (in the females) for Wheaten. It may be Wheaten plus something else I just do not know. I'm not sure that knowing would make one bit of difference either.

Back in my University days I use to make extra money by tutoring folks in Algebra. I was an Algebra wiz back then..... not bad of a fellow that majored in Theology and minored in Herbrew and Greek! Anyway, the reason I was so successful in Algebra goes back to one of my Jr High teachers. He said when introducing Algebra: 'Never ask WHY. Just take these things as TRUTH and you'll do just fine. But, if you ever decide to ask WHY then you are messed up.' Every individual I tutored in University that had problems in Algebra, I found had usually asked, 'Why?'

Here's what I've learned thru experience and listening:

1. If you want to keep a good Cubalaya BBR cock (will use the Standard wording) black in the black areas then you need a female that shows 'smut;' otherwise, the red will begin to show in the black areas (like the breast).

2. If you want a high colored Cubalaya BBR cock then you need to utilize a female that shows some white in the wings and possibly in the tail.

3. If you want a good Cubalaya White cock with no red in him anywhere then you need to cross your whites onto blues or blacks; then, choose the dirty looking chicks that turn white. These will be white white when fully grown. If you use the white chicks the adult male birds will show red.

Many of the females I see today show a breast that is way to light in color for a Cubalaya. This shows an outcross to a Shamo or some other Oriental bird to get size back up in a Cubalaya. Not a bad outcross at all, but selection needs to be careful. Cubalaya hens are nearly burnt brick red and that includes the breast! Just be careful in your culling and selection process if making and outcross; otherwise you'll run into other problems down the road.

Of all the birds I would be willing to make an outcross too there is only ONE that I would NEVER use: I WOULD NEVER USE A SUMATRA.

Just my thoughts and opinions.

PLEASE, don't anyone be offended by the next comments (I am being a smart ass and Devil's advocate on purpose). As a PPE Major (Political Science, Philosophy and Economics) and child of two teachers: I have learned to take nothing for what it is. If you do, you don't take into consideration the possibility that you're being sold/told total malarkey (i.e. Enron and Bernie Madoff). There is no harm in checking our work (i.e. test breeding) or asking to many questions with ridiculous possible explanations (there are no wrong ideas in brain storming).

All in all, I strongly respect your and everyone's experience with this breed. In fact it leads me to belive I should be sure to set-up a double mating pens for my future Cubalayas. From what you have described it makes the most sense - I am doing the same with my Buff Chanteclers. Like the Cubalayas, Chanteclers carry a wheaten base (true self-Buff carries something like Columbian, Wheaten, Dilute, Red/Mahogany and I belive Black extender(?)) and while smut in a bird is not desired by the SOP, it is needed in females to produce good sons. Wheaten, like Buff, is not a very standardized color it seems - shades and variations of shades confuse the hell out of me, just look at Ameracaunas, OEG, Modern Game, Marans, Faverolles even and then take into account what European standards call for. I have a feeling that with all y'all breeders it will be no time before there is a greater understanding of Cubalaya genetics. I just can't get get over the idea that wheaten is wheaten, there is no new sort of wheaten just because it doesn't breed the same in a different breed.. Weren't Cubalays created with the introduction of Asiatic ( from the Philippines (?)). It seems that it's really just a matter of the expressions, overall genetic load (which I guess ties into the genotype expression) and preferences - like Leghorns (i.e. Light Brown and Dark Brown) and how they compare to other breeds with the same color variety (i.e. Dutch's Light Brown).

Lol, I have been told by my boyfriend and others that my constant "why's" and "what if's" are at times grating. Honestly though, how do we expert to learn if we don't question the possibilities??

 

[adubsroit]

I also agree that out-crossing to Sumatras is a horrible idea. There are people in the works of developing black Chanteclers who are out-cross to Sumatras to set the genes for pure black.. I can only imagine what an American breed will look like bred to such a specific type as Sumatra.

Do people ever out-cross to Yokohamas??

 

[saladin]

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The Germans did to create some of there colors.

 

[saladin]

Theology and Philosophy are great areas to ask 'why' and 'what if.' After my University days I went on to earn a Master and Doctorate degree. I too like those questions.

However, here we are dealing with living organisms. The strains that we have came from different parts of the island each with different genetic backgrounds. Once they arrived here breeders began to add other things to the mix. Thus, we are dealing with a bird that carries a 'genetic' load. It would be impossible to say for sure what all is in there. Even if you could regarding your particular birds then it would not necessarily hold for other birds.

Nothing wrong with asking 'why.' I for one just don't see it applying here: no offense intended.