Current Internet Theory

[U_Stormcrow]

Follow up question: would those changes be enough to cause a significant drop in egg laying? 0.05% doesn't seem drastic

As it turns out, the 0.3% the feed is down to is the level at which many feeds already were.

So while I consider a change from 0.35 to 0.3 to be pretty drastic (the new level is only 85% of the former), NO, IT WILL NOT CAUSE BIRDS TO STOP LAYING. (emphasis for those in the back)

Methionine needs for an adult laying production hen first year are generally given as 0.3% (old studies), up to 0.4% (new studies). Met is MUCH more important to hatchlings - its used for connective tissue development - skin, intenstinal tract, tendons - you know, unimportant stuff. Reduced Met levels in young chicks result in greater vulnerability to disease, slower growth, lowered feed efficiency through adulthood, among other concerns.

Once they are done growing, its used for maintenance - primarily the synthesis of other proteins.

 

[3KillerBs]

If it comes down to it, I may need to go with non-med chick starter for all. How long do you think can I safely do that for adults without making them obese?

They'll self-regulate.

I've noticed that when I've had to buy a lower-protein layer when I couldn't get my regular feed that the birds went through the 50#s several days faster -- presumably trying to meet their needs from a lower-quality feed.

The new stuff lists porcine meat and bone meal. I didn't think that animal products were in poultry feed anymore???

I'm happy to see this.

I always laughed at the Eggland's Best cartons that proclaimed that their chickens were fed "an all natural vegetarian diet" -- there being nothing natural about a vegetarian chicken.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

And for those wondering what Kiki and I are talking about??? The Thread is HERE - and represents a LOT of work on Kiki's part

 

[RoyalChick]

Well, in my thinking there must be some reason...why the war on meat and chicken eggs. And protein is the common denominator. From the commercial chicken farms going up in flames mysteriously, to the avain flu to them wanting us to eat genetically modified meat and bugs. Cows apparently fart too much..To the price of eggs and meat being ridiculous. Too many coincidences for my liking...

I am not telling you how to think. I am just explaining the science in that article because I am fortunate enough to have the training that makes me able to do so.
All I can say is that the article you posted is not evidence of anything other than a bunch of scientists figuring how to develop antibodies to treat people by producing them in eggs.
So you will have to look elsewhere for evidence of the things you believe about all the things you are concerned about.

 

[Kiki]

Scratch and Peck's "Naturally Free" Organic Layer.

View attachment 3389292

Lys 0.7, Met 0.3, Phos 0.5 (those are already pretty minimal)

View attachment 3389295

NO CHANGE(except Price)

Oh boy.
I'm thinking I might have to make new columns for every single feed to compare.

 

[Aunt Angus]

I've heard aflatoxins, which are always of concern in corn-based feeds (though I'm not hearing symptoms of widespread, severe, prolonged aflatoxin exposures), but Vomitoxins?

I thought they were the milder of the two, and not particularly associated with much other than weight loss and gerenally decreased condition overall.

I just like the name "vomitoxin."

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I'm not saying there are no aflatoxins in the feed supply - that would be stupid and ignorant of me.

I do find it remarkable that the same "experienced chicken owners" who have "never had their birds stop laying completely or for this long" who diagnosed (without testing) widespread and persistent feed problems [insert various implausible and sometimes incomprehensible and/or completely ignorant conspiracy theories] somehow failed to notice either the symptoms of persistent malnutrition or the symptoms of profound (and/or prolonged) aflatoxin poisonings, particularly where reduced rate of lay is not one of the primary symptoms associated with aflatoxin exposures.

Either they are experienced chicken owners whose opinions we should trust because they are "experienced", or they aren't qualified to to diagnose a feed problem based on observation, in part because they've failed to make notice of the other symptoms they should be seeing in association with their diagnosed cause.

 

[Kiki]

Let me see when I made my sheet...I'm guessing it's a few years old. Brb

 

[Kiki]

Here's Dumor Brand's Layer feed. Here's a BYC post from 2017 with its label breakdown.

Crude Protein (min.) 16.00%, Lysine (min.) .70%, Methionine (min.) .35%, Crude Fat (min.) 2.50%, Crude Fiber (max.) 7.00%, Calcium (Ca) (min.) 3.80%, Calcium (Ca) (max.) 4.80%, Phosphorus (P) (min.) .50%, Salt (NaCl) (min.) .25%, Salt (NaCl) (max.) .75%, Ruminant meat and bone meal free.

Here it is on TSC today.

Methionine

0.30% min

Lysine

0.70% min

Phosphorus

0.45% min

Yup, they told us. Met and Phos have both dropped.

and if you look on Kiki's spreadsheet, you will see the old numbers - 0.35% Met, 0.5% Phos

 

[NanaK]

I'm happy to see this.

I always laughed at the Eggland's Best cartons that proclaimed that their chickens were fed "an all natural vegetarian diet" -- there being nothing natural about a vegetarian chicken.

Same!

I wonder how Eggland's keep the insects out of the "all natural vegetarian diet". I guess their hen's are trained to ignore a bug crawling by??