CUTS on there Backs while trying to hatch!!

[yinepu]

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exactly.. peach wouldn't deliberately rough handle ANY eggs.. so the rough handling issue can be ruled out.. cause if you are going to be rough with some.. chances are pretty darn good you'll be rough with all

free ranging is a moot point.. since you have no idea what they may be free ranging on.. it could be that their yard is nothing but dirt.. or they have sprayed pesticides to kill off bugs.. or they are filling up on other feed before being turned out to free range for the day.. or the forage may simply be lacking.. too many scenarios to mention.. so just because a bird free ranges doesn't mean they have good forage to munch on or that they are getting enough of it to make a difference in what they are eating..

For example goats here in Texas have issues with selenium deficiencies and need to be supplemented... simply because there isn't enough selenium occurring naturally to get into the forage that they eat..

it COULD be a genetic issue... however a dietary one is the more likely scenario.. When I went back over my records this morning I found that I also bought some goose eggs from them last summer (Peach was kind enough to give me their name).. the one gosling that hatched had a niacin deficiency right out of the shell and had to be supplemented

 

[Lacrystol]

So according to your food theory, even if your ducks are free rangers, they are still going to lack something in there diet to cause this problem. Sorry, I'm still not convinced.

 

[yinepu]

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lol.. I already covered this in another post.. but here goes

All ducklings or goslings in a clutch where the feed is slightly deficient won't show the same symptoms.. simply because there are some who are more susceptible to deficiencies than others..

Having worked for a commercial hatchery I have seen all sorts of genetic issues and this was never one... and we hatched 10's of thousands of eggs per day.. we saw birds with missing beaks, cross beak, extra limbs and so on.. as I stated yeah it COULD be genetic.. but highly doubtful

 

[Lacrystol]

Lol Lori play nice!!!

Ps I just picked up my blue pencilled trio so EEEKKKK

I am, I just trying to Understand this Feed theory and they do NOT have me convinced it's the issue. I want them to convince me without a doubt it's definitely a feed issue..

So they have to PLEA there case with me. LOL I'm not trying to be mean just trying to understand there thought behind it.. that's all

 

[yinepu]

So according to your food theory, even if your ducks are free rangers, they are still going to lack something in there diet to cause this problem. Sorry, I'm still not convinced.

well.. you can remain unconvinced as much as you like.. but think of it this way..

lets say you have a child who has access to all sorts of great food
but for breakfast they are fed donuts and candy.. then after they are full you put a plate of carrots in front of them... how many carrots do you think a child full of donuts will eat?

same idea... if the breeder is feeding them first before free ranging they won't be hungry enough to eat the better food


scenario two:
same child.. you tell them to go eat what ever is in the fridge... your cousin's fridge in another state is stocked with all sorts of good food.. however yours only has iceberg lettuce.. how much nutrition do you think the child will get from a diet that is lacking in essential nutrients?

so if the breeder's forage is lacking in essential nutrients how will the birds be able to get everything they need? Just because your pasture may be stocked full of bugs and great forage .. doesn't mean that the breeder's pasture is

This spring so far we have had warm weather then very cold snaps.. bugs are pretty much non-existent since most are getting killed off as they emerge.. we've also had droughts the past few years.. the breeder may not have had many bugs for their birds to get.. and their pasture may be looking like ours has over the winter.. pretty barren with dead weeds
We did plant winter rye grass.. but no idea if the breeder of these eggs had that for their birds or not.. so their birds may have been filling up on poor quality forage
Had this issue been in the middle of a nice green spring.. THEN I would lean a teeny bit more towards a genetic issue.. but without having their feed and pasture analyzed and more reports of issues with defects at hatch (from months or years).. the most likely scenario is a dietary deficiency.. if there had been a lot of ongoing issues with defects then the genetic issue would become more likely

 

[yinepu]

Quote:
lol.. they aren't my birds or eggs.. so I don't have to plead a case!

Just pointing in the direction of reason.. if you choose to believe otherwise when the facts point to a dietary issue.. then by all means believe what you wish..

However I have to look at the facts given and make an informed decision based on those facts

after over 50 years of dealing with hatching eggs, breeder flocks (mine and commercial flocks), genetic defects, feed deficiencies and so on.. I gotta go with the feed issue in this case.. there are just too many things pointing to it and not to mishandling, shipping, or genetic issues
without more information of past genetic history the feed scenario becomes the most likely reason

 

[Lacrystol]

exactly.. peach wouldn't deliberately rough handle ANY eggs.. so the rough handling issue can be ruled out.. cause if you are going to be rough with some.. chances are pretty darn good you'll be rough with all

free ranging is a moot point.. since you have no idea what they may be free ranging on.. it could be that their yard is nothing but dirt.. or they have sprayed pesticides to kill off bugs.. or they are filling up on other feed before being turned out to free range for the day.. or the forage may simply be lacking.. too many scenarios to mention.. so just because a bird free ranges doesn't mean they have good forage to munch on or that they are getting enough of it to make a difference in what they are eating..

For example goats here in Texas have issues with selenium deficiencies and need to be supplemented... simply because there isn't enough selenium occurring naturally to get into the forage that they eat..

it COULD be a genetic issue... however a dietary one is the more likely scenario.. When I went back over my records this morning I found that I also bought some goose eggs from them last summer (Peach was kind enough to give me their name).. the one gosling that hatched had a niacin deficiency right out of the shell and had to be supplemented

NO you can't rule out the Rough handling!!! first of all, she's not rough handling her own eggs, so there for her Hatchings are going to be at a much GREAT SUCCESS!! so NO you can't rule that out.. And she DOES have a better success with her own, WHY because she's NOT rough handling them. LOL,,

Peach take one of your eggs and rough handle it, lets get to the bottom line of this. LOL.. WHAT? The ones she is having the issue with is SHIPPED eggs, NOT her own.. Just from ONE PLACE, not all shipped eggs from different places, Just ONE place is where she is having this issue. So that tells me, SOMETHING is wrong in this Flock, NOT Everyones Flock just where she got them at this ONE place.


AHHHH NOW YOU MAKE A GREAT POINT ON THE PESTICIDE.. did not think about that. HOWEVER. I think the question now is can a duck tolerate pesticide... Would it harm a duck?

AHHH so you bought goose eggs from them. Humm well Unless your goose hatching had the SAME PROBLEM, I would be TOTALLY convinced it's a Food Issue. But your gooslings did NOT have this same issue as Peach with Cuts on the back.

So Sorry, still NOT convinced...

 

[Lacrystol]

well.. you can remain unconvinced as much as you like.. but think of it this way..

lets say you have a child who has access to all sorts of great food
but for breakfast they are fed donuts and candy.. then after they are full you put a plate of carrots in front of them... how many carrots do you think a child full of donuts will eat?

same idea... if the breeder is feeding them first before free ranging they won't be hungry enough to eat the better food


scenario two:
same child.. you tell them to go eat what ever is in the fridge... your cousin's fridge in another state is stocked with all sorts of good food.. however yours only has iceberg lettuce.. how much nutrition do you think the child will get from a diet that is lacking in essential nutrients?

so if the breeder's forage is lacking in essential nutrients how will the birds be able to get everything they need? Just because your pasture may be stocked full of bugs and great forage .. doesn't mean that the breeder's pasture is

This spring so far we have had warm weather then very cold snaps.. bugs are pretty much non-existent since most are getting killed off as they emerge.. we've also had droughts the past few years.. the breeder may not have had many bugs for their birds to get.. and their pasture may be looking like ours has over the winter.. pretty barren with dead weeds
We did plant winter rye grass.. but no idea if the breeder of these eggs had that for their birds or not.. so their birds may have been filling up on poor quality forage
Had this issue been in the middle of a nice green spring.. THEN I would lean a teeny bit more towards a genetic issue.. but without having their feed and pasture analyzed and more reports of issues with defects at hatch (from months or years).. the most likely scenario is a dietary deficiency.. if there had been a lot of ongoing issues with defects then the genetic issue would become more likely

I don't think you need More genetic issues to determine if it's a genetic problem in your flock. I get your Nutrients theory but I'm still finding it hard to believe. I was almost convinced with the pesticide thing though. LOL

 

[yinepu]

Just a sample of what the back pasture without the rye grass looks like around my place (seller is also from central texas.. so no idea what her's is like.. but she may very well have the same type of soil)

not much nutrition here (though things ARE starting to green up a bit)... which is why we planted the rye!



if left to free range without supplemental feed our birds would be starving to death right now..

 

[yinepu]

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that makes no sense... it sounds like from that comment that she would only rough handle shipped eggs.... I know that's probably not what you meant.. but that's certainly how it reads

I have gotten a lot of shipped eggs... if they are fertile and are not scrambled (have damaged yolk or albumen), rotten or smashed I get them to hatch... broken and bubbly air cells are not an issue...rough handling by the USPS will either scramble the eggs or not.. there is no middle ground.. so being shipped has no bearing on it since embryos from shipped eggs won't be in a stage of development anyway during shipping where the particular damage would happen resulting in the defects present in these ducklings